Remember when the nuts on the left laughed about death panels?

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Oh so now you've changed you mind eh?
Now it should be the STATES that implement it, well you're slowly learning, eventually you'll get it.






Lemme give you a gold star.

And here we are again with the point scoring. I never once said anything about Federal Government being the solution. You'd have seen this if you paid attention to my argument from the beginning.

Edit: I see you changed your comments to something less about being a smart ass. Perhaps there is hope for you.

 

[pspr]

Quote from pspr:

I don't know how to do that. The Feds, President, Congress won't give up any power.

Only a crisis/collapse bigger than the last one can force a change. That or a successful revolution. How else?

Quote from Tsing Tao:

I agree. There's no way to reverse it. The only thing I can possibly imagine without bloodshed is if states began to win big in court against the Federal government. Obamacare, immigration and the like. But with a corrupt judicial branch, that's about as likely as "monkeys flying out of my butt", to borrow a phrase from Wayne's World.

I think that is what is going to happen but there may be another way or at least the Fed sees this as the only way to stave off the hard reality and we know they are doing it somewhat covertly today.

Monetization.

The Fed can retire the debt by printing the money. Monetization will end in hyper-inflation and the destruction of the finances of tens of millions and our currency.

So, to push the day of reckoning out the Fed is doing the monetization covertly. By taking the paper out of circulation but not officially retiring it the Fed is accomplishing monetization but the debt doesn't shrink on paper.

I guess this is better than collapse or revolution but at some point I think the Fed will have to actually retire the debt it holds. It can't put it back in the market, as it says it will do.

So, I guess the questions are:

1.) How long can the Fed play this game and avoid inflation and Dollar collapse? This could even lead to war in full blown monetization.

2.) The game gets more difficult for the Fed to continue if government keeps spending and growing faster than revenue growth. At what point will that force the Fed's hand? Debt to GDP of 200%? 400%? Where?

We are really digging one monstrous hole!

 

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

And here we are again with the point scoring. I never once said anything about Federal Government being the solution. You'd have seen this if you paid attention to my argument from the beginning.

Cut the crap tsing, these are your direct quotes.
I don't let rcg get away with it and I'm not going to let do it either.

Quote from Tsing Tao:06-05-13 08:42 AM

There should be charity, even at a national level.

Quote from Tsing Tao:
06-05-13 09:33 AM
It must be controlled fiercely to prevent it from being used wrongly, but there is no easy way to ensure that the needy are provided for on a national level other than a national safety net.

Notice I provided the time stamps for verification.

Thanks

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from pspr:


So, I guess the questions are:

1.) How long can the Fed play this game and avoid inflation and Dollar collapse? This could even lead to war in full blown monetization.

2.) The game gets more difficult for the Fed to continue if government keeps spending and growing faster than revenue growth. At what point will that force the Fed's hand? Debt to GDP of 200%? 400%? Where?

1. It will, eventually. There are only two choices: Default, or Monetizing the debt away. That's it. The government won't choose default.

2. That's the $16 trillion question. When does it happen? There is a terminal point. The Fed can only buy up 100% of the debt that is issued. They're almost at that point now. Once that happens, they can only buy up the remaining debt out there still held by someone who wants to sell it. After that, it's a currency game only.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Cut the crap tsing, these are your direct quotes.
I don't let rcg get away with it and I'm not going to let do it either.



Notice I provided the time stamps for verification.

Thanks

I figured you'd draw on that.

There are a bunch of welfare programs out there administered by the states, funded on a national level. All I'm talking about is the same - a bare bones program managed by the state, but administered by every state - thus, nationally.

I have stated numerous times I am a Libertarian. Give states powers. Not the Federal government.

 

[pspr]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

1. It will, eventually. There are only two choices: Default, or Monetizing the debt away. That's it. The government won't choose default.

2. That's the $16 trillion question. When does it happen? There is a terminal point. The Fed can only buy up 100% of the debt that is issued. They're almost at that point now. Once that happens, they can only buy up the remaining debt out there still held by someone who wants to sell it. After that, it's a currency game only.

But the outstanding debt held by others will eventually mature. As it matures the Fed can buy up the new debt replacing it.

I just see this prolonging and amplifying the problem and it all ending very very badly for the U.S. in the end. I guess the Fed is just going to play it by ear and hope some huge problem doesn't pop up to force it's hand before the end of time.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from pspr:

But the outstanding debt held by others will eventually mature. As it matures the Fed can buy up the new debt replacing it.

I just see this prolonging and amplifying the problem and it all ending very very badly for the U.S. in the end. I guess the Fed is just going to play it by ear and hope some huge problem doesn't pop up to force it's hand before the end of time.

No, you're not following me. The Fed already buys an amount equal to 80% of current debt issuance. It wouldn't take much for them to buy each month what the country issues. Maturing debt would just remove that from the system.

 

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

I figured you'd draw on that.

There are a bunch of welfare programs out there administered by the states, funded on a national level. All I'm talking about is the same - a bare bones program managed by the state, but administered by every state - thus, nationally.

I have stated numerous times I am a Libertarian. Give states powers. Not the Federal government.

I'm not the one hung up on fed or state run programs . I said govt theft which includes both. however a state funded and run program is better.
Federal govt stealing and apportioning to ind states to administer has the same moral hazard so I see little difference in your supposed distinction.
I suspect you made it just to be "pissy" in your words.

Oh since that's what we have now .
All you want is a do over.
remember"you're hanging your hat (validity ) on "we're gonna get it RIGHT THIS TIME ""
Fine , now explain how that's not going to end up right where we are again?

thanks
bye bye now

PS: What I'm ultimately getting at is govt is NOT THE SOLUTION.

 

[pspr]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

No, you're not following me. The Fed already buys an amount equal to 80% of current debt issuance. It wouldn't take much for them to buy each month what the country issues. Maturing debt would just remove that from the system.

No, I understand that. Just worded it differently.

Thinking about this is giving me a headache and depressing me. There just is no workable solution other than try to push out the day of reckoning.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from pspr:

No, I understand that. Just worded it differently.

Thinking about this is giving me a headache and depressing me. There just is no workable solution other than try to push out the day of reckoning.

That's why I have land I can go to, guns, ammo and gold Call me crazy if ya want!