Paradise Lost

[stu]

As I say then, not a true gift at all.
More like an offer couched in the terms of a threat.
Take this or you don't get that.

by Grace (free unmerited gift of God) the Creator offers salvation.

if you wish to know you have salvation you should accept the Grace while your alive.

if you wait... I don't know...

 

[peilthetraveler]

Having to be accepting of a gift, is no free or true gift.
Being offered a gift for something done in return, is no free or true gift.
Being required to believe something in order to receive a gift, is no free or true gift. You get my drift.

So Stu, if I give you $1 million dollars, no strings attached, in your mind it's not really free because you have to believe I have $1 million and you have to accept payment, right?

 

[peilthetraveler]

As I say then, not a true gift at all.
More like an offer couched in the terms of a threat.
Take this or you don't get that.

You're in the desert dying of thrist. I come along and I say "take this water and drink it or you will die" Do you consider that a threat? (take this or you don't get that?)

 

[CaptainObvious]

God expects nothing for his grace. It is the human condition of self worth that makes one think they need to earn it.

 

[stu]

So Stu, if I give you $1 million dollars, no strings attached, in your mind it's not really free because you have to believe I have $1 million and you have to accept payment, right?

Belief doesn't come into it.
Give me $1 million dollars and I don't have to believe you have $1 million dollars - I have the $1 million dollars!
Had I had to accept it , it is not a true gift, however much you might suggest otherwise. I'm sure you see how that is.

You're in the desert dying of thrist. I come along and I say "take this water and drink it or you will die" Do you consider that a threat? (take this or you don't get that?)

If I had to believe in you to take/receive the water, it's closer to a threat than anything else.

God expects nothing for his grace. It is the human condition of self worth that makes one think they need to earn it.

Not a gift then, not as special as that, but a giveaway. One takes or not, no strings attached.
Just the small cost of some personal integrity in having to presuppose a god.

 

[jem]

this is more semantics than a theological issue...
but even if I had million in my hand for you... you would still have to accept it.
all gifts that I can think of are accepted. for instance...

in property law for a gift to transfer ownership it must be accepted.
even when the owners were giving deeds to upside down properties to the banks. The banks could reject those deeds so they could foreclose.

even life has to be accepted.

As I say then, not a true gift at all.
More like an offer couched in the terms of a threat.
Take this or you don't get that.

 

[Zzzz1]

It's absolutely shocking how some who seemingly understand God's gift of salvation and who seem to understand God's design for men and God's guidelines for humans, are the same people who would go out and assassinate Hillary Clinton (if they could), would die in defense for their given right to bear firearms (but not given right to use them), spread outright lies and sling around gossip and malice (knowing that those are lies and malice) just to hurt a political opponent, and pretty much do everything else Jesus taught we ought not to do.

Those types are the worst kind, because they falsify God's word and are essentially false teachers and hypocrites.

 

[piezoe]

Even funnier, why can't you just ignore Laura Ingraham?

Laura Ingraham? Who is Laura Ingraham?

 

[Wallet]

Salvation isn't free, an immeasurable price was paid for it.

 

[stu]

It's interesting to see religion's perpetual default position, turning basic commonsense on its head to refuse all rationality.

God's gift -no gift - is a gift when payment has been made to receive or accept it.