Paradise Lost

[OddTrader]

According to the theory below, God/Nature's order/ will/ mystery/ sciences are to be (re)searched on an ongoing basis.

One tiny rock that is currently being lifted by God is the planet we now live - our earth.

Q
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

Physics and cosmology

Main article: Stoic physics
See also: De Mundo

According to the Stoics, the universe is a material, reasoning substance, known as God or Nature, which the Stoics divided into two classes, the active and the passive. The passive substance is matter, which "lies sluggish, a substance ready for any use, but sure to remain unemployed if no one sets it in motion."[17] The active substance, which can be called Fate, or Universal Reason (Logos), is an intelligent aether or primordial fire, which acts on the passive matter:

The universe itself is God and the universal outpouring of its soul; it is this same world's guiding principle, operating in mind and reason, together with the common nature of things and the totality that embraces all existence; then the foreordained might and necessity of the future; then fire and the principle of aether; then those elements whose natural state is one of flux and transition, such as water, earth, and air; then the sun, the moon, the stars; and the universal existence in which all things are contained.
— Chrysippus, in Cicero, De Natura Deorum, i.39

UQ

 

[stu]

One tiny rock that is currently being lifted by God is the planet we now live - our earth.

According to the Stoics, the universe is a material, reasoning substance, known as God or Nature,

erm... that's called gravity not God. And the universe is all there is including unreasoning substance which could also be called God or Nature. Perhaps Stoics really need to rethink.

 

[Good1]

Things that cost or "cost" even, are not gifts.
The tree of knowledge... thou shalt not eat of it....for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die...

Some gift.

In my explaination I must not have emphasized enough that there is currently confusion and conflation between the initial pre-existing condition(s) and the practice of telling people about it...and thier need to accept it at the cost of all false beliefs regarding same.

The true gift is/was/is the pre-existing condition. One could call it "paradise". This thread is called "paradise lost". Yes, current experience suggests that any such prior gift is lost. And it could be argued that if a gift could be lost it was not a gift. But don't confuse/conflate the effort to restore the prior pre-condition as a flawed gift, and so, not a gift at all. The effort to restore the original gift is as much a gift as current experiential conditions allow. The terms are as good as you'll ever recieve. The "cost" of acceptance is only "high" if you value false beliefs about reality, such as 2 + 2 = 3. If you value such drivel the cost may seem high. The key to keeping the cost down...down to zero...is to realize that such drivel has no value.

I didn't have to post this, and I'm curious whether or not you consider it a gift.

 

[Good1]

Now, the reason you won't get the gift back through a Christian, let alone a rich Christian pastor, is because they prefer to conflate and confuse the original gift (which I call the pre-existing condition) with some aspect of the "paradise lost" condition.

For example, they will tell you that upon earth, once upon a time, there was paradise...or a paradise. There was a man and a woman and paradise.

But I tell you that if there is a man and a woman involved, indeed, if there is any terra firma involved, then paradise has already been lost.

Trump uses the #MAGA theme, and it's appealing, but , Christians have been using a make-paradise-great-again theme for a long time, which may have worked...if they had not lost what paradise even means, and had not conflated it with hellish conditions. I can't blame anyone for trying to recreate the best of hellish conditions, but it's still hell!

Indeed, Christians, with the help of their pastors both rich and poor, have conflated paradise (heaven) with hell. Why? Because for them, the cost of giving up hell seems too high. This is true for athiest, theist, Nitro and Stu alike. There are golf courses in hell and they are highly valued by Republicans and Democrats alike.

 

[stu]

The true gift is/was/is the pre-existing condition.

You mean in the same way the pre-existing condition of genital herpes is a gift?

 

[Good1]

You mean in the same way the pre-existing condition of genital herpes is a gift?

Let me guess, you hope Bill Maher sees this and hires you to be on his joke writing team?

Like any Christian pastor, rich or poor, on or off the golf course, you are conflating and confusing the conditions of heaven with the conditions of hell.

I haven't talked about the qualities of the pre-existing condition.

It would be a gift if I did.

What I'll say about it, briefly, is that it pre-existed any notion of time/change, exists now, and will continue to exist forever. What does not exist is any idea that would go against it, such as time/change and the physical phenomena that functions to prove, if possible, that the EXISTING CONDITION has been changed.

As such, the pre-existing condition is not past-tense...has not been replaced by a new condition...such as your ignorance. It is only ignorance that banishes it's existence from your experience. This ignorance is rooted in a minds ability *to ignore* ...as in, to ignore reality.

Ignorance is propelled by your faith and is ended by knowledge.

The ignorant mind is not saved by faith, but rather, knowledge.

Faith's only significance is it indicates what you want to be true.

If what you want to be true aligns with the actual truth, then you position your mind to be saved by the knowledge.

This is a way of saying that the knowledge of what actually exists is "lost" through a deliberate sort of ignorance which sets up the conditions of hell, including the condition of herpes.

But as long as there are golf courses in hell, it will remain challenging to gift hellions with actual knowledge.

 

[stu]

I haven't talked about the qualities of the pre-existing condition.
It would be a gift if I did.
What I'll say about it, briefly, is that it pre-existed any notion of time/change, exists now, and will continue to exist forever. What does not exist is any idea that would go against it, such as time/change and the physical phenomena that functions to prove, if possible, that the EXISTING CONDITION has been changed.
As such, the pre-existing condition is not past-tense...has not been replaced by a new condition...such as your ignorance. It is only ignorance that banishes it's existence from your experience. This ignorance is rooted in a minds ability *to ignore* ...as in, to ignore reality.

If you value such drivel the cost may seem high. The key to keeping the cost down...down to zero...is to realize that such drivel has no value.

physician, heal thyself.

Gifts are for the delight of those who give, not the merit of those who receive.