For my Christians Friends

[TraderZones]

Quote from smilingsynic:

Is that your interpretation of the Golden Rule?

Gee, guess you don't know your Bible after all.

I would put my knowledge of scripture against yours anytime. When someone mocks Jesus, that is going to cause a righteous anger in the true believer.

Or perhaps you have forgotten His angry reaction to those who were defiling the Temple, from John 2:

13 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
14 In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money.
15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.
16 To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"
17 His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."

And please don't give a simplistic response like "well, he could since he was jesus." There are plenty of OT/NT examples where believers exhibited righteous anger, such as Paul

Paul blinds a sorcerer Acts 13:6-13

Peter damns a sorcerer Acts 8:20-23

And perhaps you forgot when the apostles caused the death of a husband/wife, who lied about whether they money they brought was really the total amount?

This is the second example that your knowledge is cursory. You do not grasp the deep things of scripture.

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from I am...:

I'm talking to the deluded. So bring it on...


Jesus

Then talk to yourself, by all means.

Meanwhile, I plan to honor you by using the ignore feature

 

[acronym]

You people disgust me.

 

[smilingsynic]

Quote from TraderZones:

I would put my knowledge of scripture against yours anytime. When someone mocks Jesus, that is going to cause a righteous anger in the true believer.

Or perhaps you have forgotten His angry reaction to those who were defiling the Temple, from John 2:

13 When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
14 In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money.
15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.
16 To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"
17 His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."

Did Jesus follow the Golden Rule when he lost his temper with the moneychangers?

One could argue from the example you cited that Jesus himself did not obey his own teachings.

From your immature behavior on this thread, I would argue the same about you.

The Bible is full of such inconsistencies. The God of the Old Testament was a spiteful, vengeful, genocidal individual, the proof for which can be found in the Old Testament.

I have not "mocked" Jesus. I merely that the historical evidence for Jesus being regarded as Christ is flimsy. Simply put, most of the so-called evidence consists of the Gospels, and they were composed decades after Jesus' death. Not what I would call first-hand sources.

I answer your objections, reasonably and with kindness, and you answer with bile.

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from smilingsynic:

Did Jesus follow the Golden Rule when he lost his temper with the moneychangers? One could argue from the example you cited that Jesus himself did not obey his own teachings.

I thought you understood the scripture? All you have offered is your belief about it. Demonstrate this background and knowledge you claimed (evangelical U and Ph.D. in religious history).

You keep waving the Golden Rule as if that is the whole argument. But the entire breadth of scripture is what counts, as rudimentarily encapsulated in the 10 commandments. Remember Deuteronomy 5?

6 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

7 you shall have no other gods before me.

8 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,

10 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

11 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

12 Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you.

13 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

14 But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, or your son or your daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or your donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female slave may rest as well as you.

15 Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day.

16 Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

17 You shall not murder.

18 Neither shall you commit adultery.

19 Neither shall you steal.

20 Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbour.

21 Neither shall you covet your neighbour’s wife. Neither shall you desire your neighbour’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

 

[I am...]

Quote from TraderZones:

Or perhaps you have forgotten His angry reaction to those who were defiling the Temple, from John 2:

Paul blinds a sorcerer Acts 13:6-13

Peter damns a sorcerer Acts 8:20-23

And perhaps you forgot when the apostles caused the death of a husband/wife, who lied about whether they money they brought was really the total amount?

This is the second example that your knowledge is cursory. You do not grasp the deep things of scripture.

The gospels are novels, embellished stories that convey the values of the writers...with or without regard to facts. As such, they are like parables. I did not clear the temple this way. The "temple" of which I spoke was the mind of the Son. I cleared my own mind of "moneychangers": illusions that interfere with truth. They trade on guilt, asking for sacrifice. If any would follow me, each must clear his mind vigorously of the concepts of guilt and sacrifice. Passivity won't work. Illusions destroy the mind of the Son. Truth rebuilds it.

Paul and Peter had not yet cleared their section of the Son's temple. Sacrifice is an illusion unknown to - foreign to - God. Peter and Paul believed in the efficacy of sacrifice because they still believed in the illusion of guilt, for which they sought a solution their own way. The solution is to clear the temple of the ideas that trade on guilt, and require payment for the restoration of the Kingdom to the Son.

The death of the couple is also a parable. It is also designed to augment perceptions about Peter at the expense of the truth about the Holy Spirit and how He operates. Here is how the Holy Spirit operates: All illusions in your mind must be brought to the light of truth that they may be seen for what they are...nothing...meaningless bits of valued valuelessness that interfere with your awareness of the truth. So long as you value anything at all in the world, you retain the whole world in your experience. And what is the world about? It is about death. And if you hold onto the world, you will die like everything in the world dies.

Therefore, "sell" every idea you ever valued about the world, and give it to the Truth - the Holy Spirit - to shine away. "Sell" everything you ever thought you knew. Sell everything, and question its validity. The Holy Spirit will not take anything away from the wayward Son, who wanders in his own mind. So what is "sold" must be given willingly...voluntarily. If anything is withheld, the experience of death will come as it comes to everyone who holds onto the world. Peter and Paul did not finish clearing their own temples. They held onto the idea of sacrifice for payment for guilt. This is not according to the truth. And so, they "died".

The temple is a parable for the mind of the Son. The Holy Spirit resides there. But so do your illusions. Bring them to the Truth, and the Truth shall set you free. A free mind is freedom indeed. Till then, you are a slave to the conflict in your own mind.

Jesus

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from smilingsynic:

The Bible is full of such inconsistencies. The God of the Old Testament was a spiteful, vengeful, genocidal individual, the proof for which can be found in the Old Testament.

That is your interpretation. THe scripture says very clearly, that they will look but not see, and listen but not hear.

Remember this? "The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing?"

If God is God, then why is your opinion critical? Last time I checked, you didn't run the Universe. I am waiting for your KNOWLEDGE OF SCRIPTURE. Not your OPINION of it.

 

[smilingsynic]

Quote from TraderZones:

Quote from smilingsynic:

Did Jesus follow the Golden Rule when he lost his temper with the moneychangers? One could argue from the example you cited that Jesus himself did not obey his own teachings.

I thought you understood the scripture? All you have offered is your belief about it. Demonstrate this background and knowledge you claimed (evangelical U and Ph.D. in religious history).

You keep waving the Golden Rule as if that is the whole argument. But the entire breadth of scripture is what counts, as rudimentarily encapsulated in the 10 commandments. Remember Deuteronomy 5?

6 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

7 you shall have no other gods before me.

8 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,

10 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

11 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

12 Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you.

13 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

14 But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, or your son or your daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or your donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female slave may rest as well as you.

15 Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day.

16 Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

17 You shall not murder.

18 Neither shall you commit adultery.

19 Neither shall you steal.

20 Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbour.

21 Neither shall you covet your neighbour’s wife. Neither shall you desire your neighbour’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

Ironically, sometimes the God of the Old Testament had no problem with the Israelites' killing and stealing. Isn't that how they got the Promised Land, which flowed with milk and honey (and, one might surmise, blood)?

I am rather surprised by your appeal to the Old Testament, considering Jesus' opinion of the Law and of those legalistic opponents of his.

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from smilingsynic:

Ironically, sometimes the God of the Old Testament had no problem with the Israelites' killing and stealing. Isn't that how they got the Promised Land, which flowed with milk and honey (and, one might surmise, blood)?

I am rather surprised by your appeal to the Old Testament, considering Jesus' opinion of the Law and of those legalistic opponents of his.

I am surprised that you claim to have so much knowledge of Scripture, and yet are incapable of doing anything other than continue to dredge up your opinions.

I have seen nothing yet with traction from you.

 

[I am...]

Quote from TraderZones:


Remember this? "The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing?"

The preaching of guilt and sacrifice makes sense to those who are perishing. Paul died, no matter how hard he tried to make sense of the sensless. Everyone who has ever followed Paul's axioms has perished. There was no "traction" in them. But those who take my words to heart will not taste death.

Jesus