For my Christians Friends

Quote from smilingsynic:

I would not consider memory to be authoritative evidence, since people easily forget or misremember. Sometimes their memories change over time.

Well, we certainly have established that you are not authoritative.

What seems true today was not so for peoples who were largely illiterate, and depended on sound memory.

You should do some research. Your analysis is practically groundless.

Sorry, but your claims to education does not square with your abilities.

In this case, I think your "Ph.D." definitely did mean piled higher and deeper
 
Quote from smilingsynic:

This is a classical informal fallacy known as appeal to ignorance.

No, this is a classical truth that scientists aren't stupid enough to think that the fossils, archaeological relics, or other things they find are EVER the earliest. Fossils and things like early manuscripts are usually a needle in a haystack. Many times, NO copies of early documents are found.

Think about all the works that were lost in the Library of Alexandria. Many known works by famous people were NEVER found.

Nice try, though

Of course there MIGHT have been earlier copies, but at this point those copies are not known to exist. Until then, the evidence is lacking.

Of course, there WERE earlier copies.

Of course there is ALWAYS earlier copies. Don't be so naive.

Like your claim that they had already gotten to about 50,000 species of dinosaurs? Quote "Approximately 700 species have been named. However, a recent scientific review suggests that only about half of these are based on fairly complete specimens that can be shown to be unique and separate species." Where do you do your research, Betty and Veronica comics?

Unlike yourself, I happen to have real degrees. And you come across as someone who has fabricated his.

Show me the copies, and then we'll have some evidence.

Your responses wax more ignorant. Show me one academically sound response you have given on this thread.
 
Quote from smilingsynic:

Most of the so-called Apocryphal books were written AFTER the gospels, in the second century. Their veracity is even more suspect than that of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. These books did not past muster and were not included in the canon, which was for the most part set forth by the end of the fourth century.


New Testament Apocryphal books:

1. Pseudo-Jesus apocrypha
1.1 The Epistles of Jesus to Abgarus

2. Pseudo-apostolic (general) apocrypha
2.1 Teachings of the Twelve Apostles
(Didache)
2.2 Epistle of the Apostles

3. Psuedo-apostolic (specific - by Apostle) apocrypha
3.1 - Andrew -
3.1.1 Acts of Andrew
3.1.2 Acts of Andrew and Matthias*
3.2 - Barnabas -
3.2.1 Acts of Barnabas*
3.2.2 Epistle of Barnabas
3.2.3 Gospel of Barnabas
3.3 - Bartholomew -
3.3.1 Gospel of Bartholomew
3.3.2 Martyrdom of Bartholomew*
3.4 - James -
3.4.1 Apocryphon of James
3.4.2 Book of James (protevangelium)
3.4.3 First Apocalypse of James
3.4.4 Second Apocalypse of James
3.5 - John -
3.5.1 Acts of John
3.5.2 Acts of John the Theologian*
3.5.3 Apocryphon of John (long version)
3.5.4 Book of John the Evangelist
3.5.5 Revelation of John the Theologian*
3.6 - Mark -
3.6.1 Secret Gospel of Mark
3.7 - Matthew -
3.7.1 Acts and Martyrdom of St. Matthew the Apostle*
3.7.2 The Martyrdom of Matthew
3.8 - Nicodemus -
3.8.1 Gospel (Acts) of Nicodemus (aka The Acts of Pontius Pilate)
3.9 - Peter -
3.9.1 Acts of Peter
3.9.2 Acts of Peter and Andrew
3.9.3 Apocalypse of Peter - version 1
3.9.4 Apocalypse of Peter - version 2
3.9.5 Gospel of Peter
3.9.6 Letter of Peter to Philip
3.10 - Philip -
3.10.1 Acts of Philip
3.10.2 Gospel of Philip
3.11 - Thaddeus -
3.11.1 Acts of Thaddeus (Epistles of Pontius Pilate)*
3.11.2 Teaching of Thaddeus
3.12 - Thomas -
3.12.1 Acts of Thomas
3.12.2 Apocalypse of Thomas
3.12.3 Book of Thomas the Contender
3.12.4 Consumation of Thomas
3.12.5 Gospel of Thomas

4. Pseudo-Pauline apocrypha
4.1 3 Corinthians
4.2 Acts 29
4.3 Acts of Paul
4.4 Acts of Paul and Thecla
4.5 Acts of Peter and Paul*
4.6 Acts of Xanthippe and Polyxena
4.7 Apocalypse of Paul
4.8 Apocalypse of Paul - other version
4.9 Epistle to the Laodiceans
4.10 Revelation of Paul*
4.11 Paul and Seneca

5. Infancy Gospels apocrypha
5.1 Arabic Infancy Gospel
5.2 First Infancy Gospel of Jesus Christ
5.3 Infancy Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew
5.4 Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Greek A
5.5 Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Greek B
5.6 Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Latin

6. Relatives of Jesus apocrypha
6.1 Gospel of Mary
6.2 Gospel of the Nativity of Mary
6.3 Book of John concerning the dormition of Mary (transitus mariæ)*
6.4 History of Joseph the Carpenter*
6.5 Narrative of Joseph of Arimathaea

7. Sub-canonical (disputed canon) apocrypha
7.1 Shepherd of Hermas
7.2 II Clement
7.3 Diatession
7.4 Gospel of the Lord (Marcion)

8. Other significant Epistles and
pseudomynous writings and apocrypha
8.1 I Clement
8.2 Avenging of the Saviour
8,3 Epistles of Pontius Pilate
8.4 Letter of Aristeas
8.5 Sentences of the Sextus
8.6 Alexandrians
8.7 Revelations of Stephen
8.8 Muratonian Canon (fragment)

9. Fragments of lost apocryphal books
9.1 Gospel of the Ebionites
9.2 Gospel of the Egyptians
9.3 Egerton Gospel (Egerton Papyrus 2)*
9.4 Gospel of the Hebrews
9.5 Traditions of Mattias
9.6 Gospel of the Nazaraeans
9.7 Preaching of Peter

10. Apostolic Constitutions (Didascalia Apostolorum)
10.1 Book 1
10.2 Book 2
10.3 Book 3
10.4 Book 4
10.5 Book 5
10.6 Book 6
10.7 Book 7
10.8 Book 8

11. Psuedo-Sibylline Oracles **
11.0 Preface
11.1 Chapter I
11.2 Chapter II
11.3 Chapter III
11.4 Chapter IV
11.5 Chapter V
11.6 Chapter VI
11.7 Chapter VII
11.8 Chapter VIII
11.9 Chapter XI
11.10 Chapter XII
11.11 Chapter XIII
11.12 Chapter XIV
11.13 Appendices - Fragments

now if you care to provide dates...
 
Quote from TraderZones:

Well, we certainly have established that you are not authoritative.

What seems true today was not so for peoples who were largely illiterate, and depended on sound memory.

You should do some research. Your analysis is practically groundless.

Sorry, but your claims to education does not square with your abilities.

In this case, I think your "Ph.D." definitely did mean piled higher and deeper

Zzzzz,

You offer nothing but personal attacks and insults. Trolls go on ignore.
 
Quote from smilingsynic:

Zzzzz,

You offer nothing but personal attacks and insults. Trolls go on ignore.

You offer nothing but elementary school explanations after claiming sophisticated training knowledge

But anyway, that is one way to avoid the subject.

Q.E.D. If smiley quacks like a faker and walks like a faker...
 
Quote from TraderZones:

New Testament Apocryphal books:

1. Pseudo-Jesus apocrypha
1.1 The Epistles of Jesus to Abgarus

2. Pseudo-apostolic (general) apocrypha
2.1 Teachings of the Twelve Apostles
(Didache)
2.2 Epistle of the Apostles

3. Psuedo-apostolic (specific - by Apostle) apocrypha
3.1 - Andrew -
3.1.1 Acts of Andrew
3.1.2 Acts of Andrew and Matthias*
3.2 - Barnabas -
3.2.1 Acts of Barnabas*
3.2.2 Epistle of Barnabas
3.2.3 Gospel of Barnabas
3.3 - Bartholomew -
3.3.1 Gospel of Bartholomew
3.3.2 Martyrdom of Bartholomew*
3.4 - James -
3.4.1 Apocryphon of James
3.4.2 Book of James (protevangelium)
3.4.3 First Apocalypse of James
3.4.4 Second Apocalypse of James
3.5 - John -
3.5.1 Acts of John
3.5.2 Acts of John the Theologian*
3.5.3 Apocryphon of John (long version)
3.5.4 Book of John the Evangelist
3.5.5 Revelation of John the Theologian*
3.6 - Mark -
3.6.1 Secret Gospel of Mark
3.7 - Matthew -
3.7.1 Acts and Martyrdom of St. Matthew the Apostle*
3.7.2 The Martyrdom of Matthew
3.8 - Nicodemus -
3.8.1 Gospel (Acts) of Nicodemus (aka The Acts of Pontius Pilate)
3.9 - Peter -
3.9.1 Acts of Peter
3.9.2 Acts of Peter and Andrew
3.9.3 Apocalypse of Peter - version 1
3.9.4 Apocalypse of Peter - version 2
3.9.5 Gospel of Peter
3.9.6 Letter of Peter to Philip
3.10 - Philip -
3.10.1 Acts of Philip
3.10.2 Gospel of Philip
3.11 - Thaddeus -
3.11.1 Acts of Thaddeus (Epistles of Pontius Pilate)*
3.11.2 Teaching of Thaddeus
3.12 - Thomas -
3.12.1 Acts of Thomas
3.12.2 Apocalypse of Thomas
3.12.3 Book of Thomas the Contender
3.12.4 Consumation of Thomas
3.12.5 Gospel of Thomas

4. Pseudo-Pauline apocrypha
4.1 3 Corinthians
4.2 Acts 29
4.3 Acts of Paul
4.4 Acts of Paul and Thecla
4.5 Acts of Peter and Paul*
4.6 Acts of Xanthippe and Polyxena
4.7 Apocalypse of Paul
4.8 Apocalypse of Paul - other version
4.9 Epistle to the Laodiceans
4.10 Revelation of Paul*
4.11 Paul and Seneca

5. Infancy Gospels apocrypha
5.1 Arabic Infancy Gospel
5.2 First Infancy Gospel of Jesus Christ
5.3 Infancy Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew
5.4 Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Greek A
5.5 Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Greek B
5.6 Infancy Gospel of Thomas - Latin

6. Relatives of Jesus apocrypha
6.1 Gospel of Mary
6.2 Gospel of the Nativity of Mary
6.3 Book of John concerning the dormition of Mary (transitus mariæ)*
6.4 History of Joseph the Carpenter*
6.5 Narrative of Joseph of Arimathaea

7. Sub-canonical (disputed canon) apocrypha
7.1 Shepherd of Hermas
7.2 II Clement
7.3 Diatession
7.4 Gospel of the Lord (Marcion)

8. Other significant Epistles and
pseudomynous writings and apocrypha
8.1 I Clement
8.2 Avenging of the Saviour
8,3 Epistles of Pontius Pilate
8.4 Letter of Aristeas
8.5 Sentences of the Sextus
8.6 Alexandrians
8.7 Revelations of Stephen
8.8 Muratonian Canon (fragment)

9. Fragments of lost apocryphal books
9.1 Gospel of the Ebionites
9.2 Gospel of the Egyptians
9.3 Egerton Gospel (Egerton Papyrus 2)*
9.4 Gospel of the Hebrews
9.5 Traditions of Mattias
9.6 Gospel of the Nazaraeans
9.7 Preaching of Peter

10. Apostolic Constitutions (Didascalia Apostolorum)
10.1 Book 1
10.2 Book 2
10.3 Book 3
10.4 Book 4
10.5 Book 5
10.6 Book 6
10.7 Book 7
10.8 Book 8

11. Psuedo-Sibylline Oracles **
11.0 Preface
11.1 Chapter I
11.2 Chapter II
11.3 Chapter III
11.4 Chapter IV
11.5 Chapter V
11.6 Chapter VI
11.7 Chapter VII
11.8 Chapter VIII
11.9 Chapter XI
11.10 Chapter XII
11.11 Chapter XIII
11.12 Chapter XIV
11.13 Appendices - Fragments

now if you care to provide dates...
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/
 
Quote from vhehn:

is traderzones the in your face bible thumper named rcanfiel
? sure sounds like him.

Been gone for a few days ... reviewed the thread and came to a clear conclusion regarding the above.

Yep, it's him.

JB
 
Quote from hcour:

My fav fantasy story from the bible is Noah's Ark. 2 of every species of animal, all on one biiiiiig boat. Do Christians ever consider how many species of JUST INSECTS there are? Is there anything more ridiculous?

Is it any less fantastical than Santa Claus?

Harold


If you believe in evolution, then one could make the case that all insects today came from just 2 many years ago.


:)
 
I don't see the Theory of Evolution as differing from the Christian religion, or Judaism and Islam for that matter. Actually, the first hints of that process were given right in the Book of Genesis, God building the World in stages, layers.
 
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