CNN: First charges filed in Mueller investigation

[UsualName]

I am not going to try the case here. Don't be surprised if his legal team takes a different view.

Further, while your comments have some merit, they do not counter my point. Mannafort and Flynn each have their own story so you can't just put them both in a shake and bake bag and give the same reasoning. But in regard to Mannafort, there were two or three rounds of fisa warrants, and yes, the standards to get a fisa warrant are high and even higher for an American citizen, and yes, possibly/probably the were legitimately authorized (although I don't know, it requires the intelligence community to have been truthful with the court about what evidence they had and I don't automatically accept that).

However, the law is clear that the fisa warrant is only for the purpose of authorizing the collection of foreign intelligence- not for the purpose of collecting evidence of a crime. Obviously those two areas overlap because you can come across crimes. And where such and same occur with an American citizen you must immediately go to a normal Article 3 court and get a criminal warrant if you are treating them or have a reasonable expectation that they could become the target of a criminal investigation. That does not negate your fisa warrant for collection of foreign intelligence but neither does it let you use what you get as evidence- you need a criminal warrant for that at that point.

As you said, "he was a direct target." If they followed the law, then they are all set. If they just had a fisa warrant and are using that to do a criminal investigation. Then refer to my comments about their lawyers probably going to have more to say.

Not going to try it here but it is not a slam dunk yet for anyone. And Mueller is just trying to do shock and awe against mannafort - recall that he raided his home in the middle of the night- to get him to provide info on the trump campaign. It may work or it may not. It could be counterproductive too where his lawyers just say "fuck em, just plead the fifth, and we have perfectly good defenses." In fact that is the risk Mueller or any prosecutor runs. You can do shock and awe on one defendant in order to let everyone in the pipeline know that they need to get serious about cooperating but it can go the other way and a pantload of people who felt like they would just help out because they have not done anything wrong, suddenly just plead the fifth and tell the prosecutors to have a nice day.

We shall see.

Believer it or not, what you’re suggesting could mean manafort was actually operational for Russian intelligence rather than just colluding to benefit his client, Trump. Which would be a whole ‘nother bomb.

But, we will know more when we see the perfected charges (if it is Manafort being charged). I maintain his goose is cooked in the long run.

 

[Optionpro007]

Hillary Clinton took 100+ million dollars from Russia? Holy cow!

When?

Why would Uranium investors 'graciously' contribute $ 145 MM to the Foundation out of the blue? If that is not fishy, then what is?

"The Clintons and their foundation raked in a cool $145 million in donations and "speaking fees" just from Uranium One- and Rosatom-affiliated donors while Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was supposedly keeping all Clinton Foundation business at "arm's-length."
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/russia-scandal-is-real-involves-hillary-clinton/

"The Times detailed how the Clinton Foundation had received millions in donations from investors in Uranium One.

The donations from those with ties to Uranium One weren’t publicly disclosed by the Clinton Foundation, even though Hillary Clinton had an agreement with the White House that the foundation would disclose all contributors. Days after the Times story, the foundation acknowledged that it “made mistakes,” saying it had disclosed donations from a Canadian charity, for instance, but not the donors to that charity who were associated with the uranium company."

http://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/facts-uranium-one/

 

[exGOPer]

Why would Uranium investors 'graciously' contribute $ 145 MM to the Foundation out of the blue? If that is not fishy, then what is?

It's better if you stop trading options.

Someone who doesn't understand that a person who has completely divested from a company for more than three years when another deal is made is still called an 'investor' to suit their fake news narrative - they have no business trading.

Or maybe you did know but lied anyway. That's how Cons roll.

 

[UsualName]

Why would Uranium investors 'graciously' contribute $ 145 MM to the Foundation out of the blue? If that is not fishy, then what is?

"The Clintons and their foundation raked in a cool $145 million in donations and "speaking fees" just from Uranium One- and Rosatom-affiliated donors while Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was supposedly keeping all Clinton Foundation business at "arm's-length."
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/russia-scandal-is-real-involves-hillary-clinton/

"The Times detailed how the Clinton Foundation had received millions in donations from investors in Uranium One.

The donations from those with ties to Uranium One weren’t publicly disclosed by the Clinton Foundation, even though Hillary Clinton had an agreement with the White House that the foundation would disclose all contributors. Days after the Times story, the foundation acknowledged that it “made mistakes,” saying it had disclosed donations from a Canadian charity, for instance, but not the donors to that charity who were associated with the uranium company."

http://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/facts-uranium-one/

Again, where is the 100+ million dollars coming from?

This allegation is all over the internet but there is no source. The only source is that the Clinton Foundation did receive donations from some people associated with uranium one, or whatever that company’s name is. I have investments too, you can associate me with all kinds of people. That doesn’t mean I’m taking bribes.

 

[Max E.]

What's stopping Trump's DOJ from investigating this? That's right, it's BS as usual.

If Trump team appointed a special prosecutor to investigate Hillary the media would tear him to shreds and say hes a dictator trying to put his political opponents in jail, you would be the first partisan hack on this site spamming one article after another about how trump is a third world despot.

 

[jem]

such a sophomoric / moronic argument.
as if people who sell companys don't have clauses to support the business for years going forward and sometimes financial incentives.

That is how deals work in politics.
you can see how steyer operates.
he got rich and dirty oil.
now he spends some of the money on the sale to pretend he is green... when he is really just trying to lock in the top crony spots for his old companies and block competition.

morons really think democrat leadership cares about the environment.

It's better if you stop trading options.

Someone who doesn't understand that a person who has completely divested from a company for more than three years when another deal is made is still called an 'investor' to suit their fake news narrative - they have no business trading.

Or maybe you did know but lied anyway. That's how Cons roll.

 

[Max E.]

Again, where is the 100+ million dollars coming from?

This allegation is all over the internet but there is no source. The only source is that the Clinton Foundation did receive donations from some people associated with uranium one, or whatever that company’s name is. I have investments too, you can associate me with all kinds of people. That doesn’t mean I’m taking bribes.

We all know that liberals would never try to contort the uranium one story in such a way that it wasnt technically money from russians if Trump was on the recieving end of it, but for simplicity sake ill just point this out, Billy boy got paid 500k by russians to make a speech, that is direct money from russians.

 

[Max E.]

It's better if you stop trading options.

Someone who doesn't understand that a person who has completely divested from a company for more than three years when another deal is made is still called an 'investor' to suit their fake news narrative - they have no business trading.

Or maybe you did know but lied anyway. That's how Cons roll.

Funny that this attack comes from a guy who has never made a useful comment about trading in his entire time on this site.

 

[UsualName]

We all know that liberals would never try to contort the uranium one story in such a way that it wasnt technically money from russians if Trump was on the recieving end of it, but for simplicity sake ill just point this out, Billy boy got paid 500k by russians to make a speech, that is direct money from russians.

That is direct money from someone in Russia. Clinton gave many paid speeches, still doesn’t amount to a bribe.

 

[exGOPer]

such a sophomoric / moronic argument.
as if people who sell companys don't have clauses to support the business for years going forward and sometimes financial incentives.

That is how deals work in politics.
you can see how steyer operates.
he got rich and dirty oil.
now he spends some of the money on the sale to pretend he is green... when he is really just trying to lock in the top crony spots for his old companies and block competition.

morons really think democrat leadership cares about the environment.

So Guestra sold off his company in 2007, donated to Clinton Foundation in 2009 - a year before the Uranium deal even started to happen and that means he gave the money to 'support the business' because of a clause that you can't even cite

Secondly, why would Russians give 100 million dollars to Clintons for 0.4% of world's uranium production which they can't even use and are actually net exporters? Tell me the business sense since you talked about supporting business.

Thirdly, why would they need to bribe Clintons by so much when the decision by the US government was unanimous? Do you have any evidence that Clintons got involved in influencing other members of CFIUS?

And Steyer has donated hundreds of millions to green causes, he is not lying about donating like your dear leader. Where is your proof that he got rich of oil? More BS and lies like your fake ass peer reviewed paper. Guy spends over 400 million for environmental causes but some Trump University graduate thinks that doesn't count because he says so.