Yukoner's 2015 Psychological Journal
- Thread starter Yukoner
- Start date
Tried sending this as a PM but wouldn't go through, so hell just put it out there for everybody.
From your journal today : "but kept fighting with this stupid feeling like I should be making more, I should be getting more. What I was doing, just wasn't good enough"
If you haven't done any work or research on the Inner Critic then I would suggest that. This book was pretty good although I admit I did not do all the exercises. Having a dialog with ones inner critic I did find very helpful.
http://www.amazon.com/Conquer-Inner-Critic-Doris-Helge-ebook/dp/B00A3MB2UW/ref=sr_1_sc_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1423604455&sr=8-3-spell&keywords=doris helgel
I think some people would suggest it may be the Ego trying to prove how great a trader you are but I found the inner critic approach more helpful
I'd also consider how much $$$ you make when you follow your plan compared to how much you lose when you break the rules.
How would you feel if you follow the rules and make X amount ? Really think about it and be honest then ask questions of those answers or come up with solutions or a plan to address the concerns of 'only' making X amount. Why would you be happy following the rules, how would you be disappointed following the rules etc. lots of angles to look at it from.
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Don't stress. Let it go. We get what we focus on. If you dwell on the frustration it just makes the emotion and the associated behavior stronger and tends to make us repeat it (My opinion based on some readings I don't recall
)
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Personally, I would stop doing combines. Assume you pass and manage money then blow up. With the added pressure of others watching and the pressure you would feel to perform this would be very damaging to your psyche. Get your trading absolutely solid first, IMO.
Hang in there. (and be kind and patient with yourself)
jas
From your journal today : "but kept fighting with this stupid feeling like I should be making more, I should be getting more. What I was doing, just wasn't good enough"
If you haven't done any work or research on the Inner Critic then I would suggest that. This book was pretty good although I admit I did not do all the exercises. Having a dialog with ones inner critic I did find very helpful.
http://www.amazon.com/Conquer-Inner-Critic-Doris-Helge-ebook/dp/B00A3MB2UW/ref=sr_1_sc_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1423604455&sr=8-3-spell&keywords=doris helgel
I think some people would suggest it may be the Ego trying to prove how great a trader you are but I found the inner critic approach more helpful
I'd also consider how much $$$ you make when you follow your plan compared to how much you lose when you break the rules.
How would you feel if you follow the rules and make X amount ? Really think about it and be honest then ask questions of those answers or come up with solutions or a plan to address the concerns of 'only' making X amount. Why would you be happy following the rules, how would you be disappointed following the rules etc. lots of angles to look at it from.
===
Don't stress. Let it go. We get what we focus on. If you dwell on the frustration it just makes the emotion and the associated behavior stronger and tends to make us repeat it (My opinion based on some readings I don't recall
)===
Personally, I would stop doing combines. Assume you pass and manage money then blow up. With the added pressure of others watching and the pressure you would feel to perform this would be very damaging to your psyche. Get your trading absolutely solid first, IMO.
Hang in there. (and be kind and patient with yourself)
jas
What in the world (WTF)
I agree..., you certainly did..., and have
Best decision you've made in the last 3 sessions
=========================
Here is a caution - and though on the surface it appears to go against what J says about forgiving and moving on (letting go) - it is not
Rather think of it as a reference point
Our mind is a wondrous thing - it possesses many abilities - one of which is the ability to protect us from trauma / pain / ugliness
Over the next series of days - the last 3 session's effect will diminish - significantly
You may even come to view these 3 sessions as an anomalous occurrence - that'll never be repeated again (a black swan of sorts)
Bullshit
We are only as good as our last trade..., only as good as the trade we're presently in
Our actions - left to run amuck will result in the last 3 sessions every time
This behavior is in you..., this behavior will remain always in you
Good news; you can identify it..., you can befriend it...., you can lay it to rest
With concerted effort
My points;
Don't be lulled into a false sense of improvement simply because your brain is doing its job of protecting you from the ugliness you've created these past 3 sessions
Never think / believe you're ever past this type of behavior from this point on
===============
Do you have the necessary tools to uncover the root
If not - use pencil & paper
Draw a line down the middle of each sheet of paper making two columns
One column labeled "Issue"..., other column labeled "Because"
Then start drilling down and figuring your crap out
How to resolve the root - only you can say
Resolving - does not necessarily mean fixing it (though it could)
It does mean coming to terms with it / becoming at peace with it - so you can then set it aside..., get past it..., move onward
RN
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use to call this "rabid trading"
That struck a nerve... I am making it difficult! Its like this can't be easy... it has to be hard. It has to be tough.
I mean imagine being able to see the market very clear and have an excellent trading plan, and just put on a trade and withdraw a lot of money in a few minutes of trading... and then walk away from the computer and go do whatever you love for the rest of the day.
That isn't how life is supposed to work. I was raised to work hard, long days, cold winters, be tough, be strong... put in an honest days work.... save your money. Repeat each day.
Of course this has to be difficult. It's not supposed to be easy....
"just put on a trade and withdraw a lot of money in a few minutes of trading"
dangerous thinking.... each trade you really don't know how much you are going to make unless you have preset targets, a day could be a string of 5-10 trades, could make alot or could make a little, simple stress free day, follow the rules and see what the market boss will give you, kinda boring....
dangerous thinking.... each trade you really don't know how much you are going to make unless you have preset targets, a day could be a string of 5-10 trades, could make alot or could make a little, simple stress free day, follow the rules and see what the market boss will give you, kinda boring....
@Handle123 thanks for sharing that. Similar situation for myself too. Private middle school where the minimum passing grade was 80%. Super strict... and ridiculous rules that were practically impossible for a 13 year old to keep... but oh, serious punishment if you broke them.
This is what I ran into after passing a combine and going into live trader prep. I suddenly became concerned about "they are watching me". And there I was again, having to be perfect and do everything right.... losing, well that just isn't allowed.
So you are bang on. "Your challenges remain tucked in that time area... and until you can find what is holding you back, there really is no future moving on"
This is unbelievably frustrating. I can see the market so well. At times it feels like I have a crystal ball. Like Monday evening when I told one of my close friends to short crude. (and now we are down over 300 ticks, of course he is happy) All three live trading sessions that my psych coach has watched me trade, I have made money, because I am relaxed and calm and just do what I am supposed to. I recently had an experienced trader who is familiar with my style, bring up that he would simply like me to tell him when to get in and when to get out because I can see the market so well.
I know how to trade. I have an excellent trading methodology. I have an edge.
BUT, in this combine, this pursuit to trade OPM... I just can't seem to trade. I consistently screw it up and deviate from the plan. It would be different if I could blame it on the methodology, or the trading plan... but I can't.
It is like I have been given the holy grail, and I can't drink from it.
Hello Yukoner:
I read your post from yesterday with astonishment. I am sorry your thoughts and behavior got better of you when you should have been Not-Thinking. At that time, I wasn't still sure if you had a complete trading system. But you addressed that point in today's post in reply to Handle123. Clearly, your issue is one of the mind.
Please allow me to suggest a possible solution to this problem. There are two ways one can address the issues of the mind: (a) with psychoanalysis; and, (b) with mindfulness. Handle123 has talked about how psychoanalysis -- the process of trying to find the underlying 'cause' for the displayed 'effect', like pealing an onion -- is helpful to him. I don't find psychoanalysis helpful because of two reasons: (i) getting to the correct root cause is not easy, and is prone to a lot of misdiagnosis; and, (ii) even if the correct root case is identified, no tool is available to "correct/rectify" the root cause.
The alternative approach is mindfulness -- a tool to help create awareness of oneself. Redneck talks about mindfulness; and, his writing on this topic in these forums indicate that he is a practitioner of mindfulness. But I could be incorrect. I highly recommend that you take a look into this approach of working on your thoughts. If you are interested, take the following steps for starters:
(I) google the term "Discursive Thinking". Understand what it really means; Do not stop until you understand what it means. This is your problem (and mine, and almost everyone else's too!).
(II) While you try to understand the meaning of "Discursive Thinking", read the online book Mindfulness in Plain English (link in the middle of the page).
As you do research you will find a lot of Buddhist philosophy interleaved. Do not let this deter you. Our goal is to become better, and whatever help we can get we should accept and evaluate with an open mind. As you research more you will find these concepts (about 2500 years old) are now being integrated into the world of western psychology (especially Behavioral Cognitive Therapy) with a lot of support for mindfulness (and loving-compassion) coming from experiments in Neuroscience. I am not a Buddhist, but I find the practice of mindfulness meaningful and directly helpful.
In the end, we are only as good as our thoughts. Whatever approach helps you address the issues with your thoughts, follow it.
All the best.
Regards,
Monoid.
I bet "Discursive Thinking" is going to take a long time to achieve, best ways is finding a number of traders using it and it made a difference in it changing them to overcome their problems, then reading and rereading and studying to accept yourself. That's find and dandy as one matures into life, cause "Discursive Thinking" is a life process. Going to take long time to accept yourself.
I feel we all know the "why's", but we as humans prefer to lie to ourselves, especially men, it is easier to lie than acknowledge we have certain problems and they were cause from ***, be honest, spending a few days writing all these in childhood that caused you problems, and what do you just detest or afraid of today, take list to someone who does hypnosis, they can be Psychologist even.
You can do both, one to kick start and other for ongoing.
You are absolutely correct Sir
But I started with the drill down process - so in truth I am a product of both
Extrapolating out..., the next logical question;
Which is better?
answer; Which ever better serves the one using it
The key to either - a person must be open and willing - to accept..., to forgive..., to let go..., to move on..., to change -> any thing..., every thing..., all things
And yeah I admit I'm sounding a bit guru-ish at this point
But one can't decide to hang on here..., let go there...., change only this..., allow that to remain the same
It is all intertwined and interconnected in our head..., every thing relies on..., and is supported by - every thing else
iow - fuck with "this"....., you also fuck with "that"
Be willing and prepared for the unintended consequences..., and how one seemly innocuous "this" (thought / idea / belief/ emotion/ whatever) - will have such a profound affect on "that"
I find the mind (especially mine) so damn fascinating
Anyway..., enough with the bloviating
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Yukoner
Pick a tool and get to the nut cutting; find it..., fix it..., move on
As H123 says..., you can do both..., but start with one
There will be a lifetime to master the other - give you something to do once trading becomes..., umm **routine**
**Note**; I purposely did not use the word boring - boring we lose focus - which is never good
RN