Would you collaborate with a programmer if it meant sharing your system/research?

ask yourself this question. you put in the hard work. how long did it took you to become a profitable trader? 1, 3, 5 years etc?

so u gonna share your "in and out" of your strategy to a complete stranger w/o signing some kinda of nda if he/she agrees etc.? if you say yes, please go ahead and report back to this forum.
 
Global OptionsTrades said:
The approach I would take is:
1. specify what you want him to reconfigure/develop/build. You will need to be able to do this whether you code it yourself, use the programmer that you're considering, or use another.
2. optionally, split programming the different pieces between different programmers. This doesn't sound like a good choice in this specific instance though
3. retain the key variables which are likely to comprise your IP/secret sauce/edge for yourself.

e.g. if using a moving average crossover, specify that after moving average (x periods) crosses above/below moving average (y periods) then do something. Specify that x and y are variables (that can obviously be varied). Test it using variations of x and y. When happy that the programmer has delivered what you have specified, run it with x and y using your specific backtested variables.
More...

Thank you for your suggestion.

I think what you're suggesting here would be viable if I were hiring a programmer on a contract basis.

However, since this is a collaboration the very nature of that deal means that I'll share pretty much everything. That's the source-code and logic of the system I created. Including the system itself of course. What I don't need to formally share is the experience or "know-how" I've accumulated myself over the years. Arguably, a big part of what I do and something that's not easily transferrable anyway. There's no substitute for experience...particularly so for live intraday trading.

Even if I were hiring on a contract basis I think point 3 would be very hard as this is a complete system without independent parts. Nor is it an indicator based strategy.

That said, it's possible I could hire a programmer to re-build this for me from scratch without the programmer understanding what he's really putting together or not seeing the value for himself and simply dismissing it.

Assuming it would take 3 weeks of full-time work to put together - I'm not sure what the cost of that would be for a decent programmer?

If we assume $100 per hour and 50 hours per week, that's $15K for 3 weeks of work.
 
vincentnyc said:
so u gonna share your "in and out" of your strategy to a complete stranger w/o signing some kinda of nda if he/she agrees etc.? if you say yes, please go ahead and report back to this forum.
More...

If we proceed with this we both agreed to sign a NDA-contract to secure confidentiality and that the program is only meant for private use by each of us and not commercially in any way unless agreed upon later.

The guy is a stranger, but not a complete stranger. I have a good impression of him both as a person and a programmer and I don't think he has any ulterior motives. Then again, I've been around long enough and seen enough good relationships go sour both in my own and other peoples lives, so I am of course cautious.
 
If I were to sum up the answers in this thread so far:

a) You'd be crazy to do this. Learn to code yourself or hire a programmer at some point.

b) Collaboration is the way to go (seems like only a minority of ET supports this one).

c) You're an idiot and don't even have a system. Or what you have isn't worth sh*t. Who cares...
 
I'm seriously considering it now - to the point where I'm actually leaning towards doing it. Then I'll do some more thinking and start thinking it's a bad idea...

The only other serious option to me seems to be hiring a programmer to do it for me on a contract basis. And preferrably establishing a relationship where I can use this programmer if I need updates/new implementations.

What would a realistic budget be for this assuming 3-4 weeks of full-time work?

With a collaboration, my biggest worry is still the act of simply sharing everything I have accumulated and put together. On the other hand, maybe I'm putting too much value on it.

I also fear losing control of the final product as the programmer is likely to want to influence the final solution.

Some people are worried about the programmers end of the bargain, but I talked with him again yesterday and he's very eager and belives in the idea and considers what I'm offering of great value. So much that he already started doing some work/implementation based on what I showed him and said that my approach made a light bulb go off for him personally.

Thinking, thinking...
 
Laissez Faire said:
Hello all.

Long story short I have a custom trading system/program written in C# which was built to me by a professional firm over 10 years ago by now. Since the first iteration I've had subsequent upgrades up until the point where I'm mostly satisfied as it covers most bases. This is not an automated trading system, but what I call a statistical model.

The main problem at the moment with the software is that the program outgrew its original specifications (which was rather simple), such that particularly updating of data isn't as smooth as it should be considering that I use it intraday as well. Also, I've had to add some of my own calculations later on in Excel. However, it does work, although not optimally.

I wasn't really planning on doing anything more at the moment, but have now been approached by a programmer who's very eager to collaborate with me. Roughly, the deal will be that he re-writes my current model/system taking care of all present issues and adds a few new features. In return, I pretty much give him everything which I spent so many years developing and researching.

I have two concerns:

1) How can I be certain that this guy doesn't leave me in the dust as soon as I've divulged the current source code/calculations?

I know it's possible to create contracts, but I'm still a bit worried here.

2) Simply the act of sharing everything I accumulated is something that makes me conflicted. I spent a great deal of time, trial and error to deveop what I have. And then I'm simply going to hand it out to some stranger?

The obvious benefit to me is that I may be abe to finally complete my system and have at hand a much better and more efficient program without investing any money.

Additionally, there's the possible benefit of developing something even better together. If we continue working together he can quickly implement new ideas for testing, etc.

Any thoughts?
More...
Good Morning Laissez,

You need a partner. You can not do it alone. Will take too much time and effort.

Find a partner with a skill in programming. Trust this partner.

Allow the partner to scale up the algo with you. Win win, you get rich and your partner get rich. If the programmer wishes.
 
SimpleMeLike said:
Good Morning Laissez,

You need a partner. You can not do it alone. Will take too much time and effort.

Find a partner with a skill in programming. Trust this partner.

Allow the partner to scale up the algo with you. Win win, you get rich and your partner get rich. If the programmer wishes.
More...

Good morning, SML,

I think I agree. I'm leaning towards actually doing it now (see post #86), but I will not rush it, so will spend some time thinking on it.

There's been some development today as there's now another extremely interesting prospect that showed up. This is however a professional firm (developers) with an interest in finance and where they will want to use the solution themselves. I'm a bit more skeptical towards this one as I'd like to keep it as private as possible.

The other individual I had in mind when creating this thread is a professional system developer, but will be doing it in a private capacity. I think that's the best for my purpose, but I need to consider both prospects.

Thank you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top