Would you collaborate with a programmer if it meant sharing your system/research?

[Laissez Faire]

Hello all.

Long story short I have a custom trading system/program written in C# which was built to me by a professional firm over 10 years ago by now. Since the first iteration I've had subsequent upgrades up until the point where I'm mostly satisfied as it covers most bases. This is not an automated trading system, but what I call a statistical model.

The main problem at the moment with the software is that the program outgrew its original specifications (which was rather simple), such that particularly updating of data isn't as smooth as it should be considering that I use it intraday as well. Also, I've had to add some of my own calculations later on in Excel. However, it does work, although not optimally.

I wasn't really planning on doing anything more at the moment, but have now been approached by a programmer who's very eager to collaborate with me. Roughly, the deal will be that he re-writes my current model/system taking care of all present issues and adds a few new features. In return, I pretty much give him everything which I spent so many years developing and researching.

I have two concerns:

1) How can I be certain that this guy doesn't leave me in the dust as soon as I've divulged the current source code/calculations?

I know it's possible to create contracts, but I'm still a bit worried here.

2) Simply the act of sharing everything I accumulated is something that makes me conflicted. I spent a great deal of time, trial and error to deveop what I have. And then I'm simply going to hand it out to some stranger?

The obvious benefit to me is that I may be abe to finally complete my system and have at hand a much better and more efficient program without investing any money.

Additionally, there's the possible benefit of developing something even better together. If we continue working together he can quickly implement new ideas for testing, etc.

Any thoughts?

 

[themickey]

Hello all.

Long story short I have a custom trading system/program written in C# which was built to me by a professional firm over 10 years ago by now. Since the first iteration I've had subsequent upgrades up until the point where I'm mostly satisfied as it covers most bases. This is not an automated trading system, but what I call a statistical model.

The main problem at the moment with the software is that the program outgrew its original specifications (which was rather simple), such that particularly updating of data isn't as smooth as it should be considering that I use it intraday as well. Also, I've had to add some of my own calculations later on in Excel. However, it does work, although not optimally.

I wasn't really planning on doing anything more at the moment, but have now been approached by a programmer who's very eager to collaborate with me. Roughly, the deal will be that he re-writes my current model/system taking care of all present issues and adds a few new features. In return, I pretty much give him everything which I spent so many years developing and researching.

I have two concerns:

1) How can I be certain that this guy doesn't leave me in the dust as soon as I've divulged the current source code/calculations?

I know it's possible to create contracts, but I'm still a bit worried here.

2) Simply the act of sharing everything I accumulated is something that makes me conflicted. I spent a great deal of time, trial and error to deveop what I have. And then I'm simply going to hand it out to some stranger?

The obvious benefit to me is that I may be abe to finally complete my system and have at hand a much better and more efficient program without investing any money.

Additionally, there's the possible benefit of developing something even better together. If we continue working together he can quickly implement new ideas for testing, etc.

Any thoughts?

Can this person supply you character references or work references with verified contact names & numbers whom you can talk with?

 

[easymon1]

Would you collaborate with a programmer if it meant sharing your system/research?
Yep.
Would I expect him to act in anyone's interest but his own?
Nope.

 

[Laissez Faire]

Can this person supply you character references or work references with verified contact names & numbers whom you can talk with?

I think so, yes. He already shared me his full name and CV. I assume in order to convince me. He seems capable enough, so let's assume that part of it is okay.

In my mind, I shown him a great deal of my approach already in order to let him know what it's all about and that only made him more eager to do this. But I did of course leave out the actual calculations and secret sauce. But if he's smart enough he may be able to create something similar in a few years time of problem-solving.

Other alternatives for me:

1) Do nothing

2) Wait until I have enough money to hire programmers to do a complete re-design. Advantage here is that I won't have to explain everthing except for the calculations. I'm less worried about ideas being stolen as a typical programmer won't understand it all as they're usually not financially literate.

Disadvantage is that I'll need to hire someone everything I need to make a change.

3) Learn to program myself and re-build it at some point. Realistically, this will take me probably 3 + years at best as I no longer have much time in excess.

 

[Millionaire]

Good trading edges are like gold dust. It is hard to find really good edges.

If i spent a decade(s) doing endless hours of research, which i actually have as well, i wouldn't give that away to anyone.

 

[themickey]

The other thing if possible, get one person code half, different person the other half, or leave out bits you can do yourself.

 

[guest_trader_1]

"Should I give my code away to someone for free or should I give my code away to someone and also pay him a fee"

It will never stop to amaze me how people can think that if they pay for a service that service is better than if it was free. I tried to collaborate for free so many times with so called "analysts". They all had the same fear: "he will steal my idea and run away". The minute I asked for 80 € / hour everything was fine, I got the same ideas/code and got paid as well. Amazing.

 

[Millionaire]

"Should I give my code away to someone for free or should I give my code away to someone and also pay him a fee"

I think in the free deal the programmer wants to know everything about the model.

When you pay you don't have to give away everything, you can ask for a more general solution and tweak it to your exact requirements. You don't even have to tell the programmer which market(s) you really intend to trade. Just pick a random market and tell them different system parameters from the ones you intend to use in live trading. You can even make them add a few indicators that you never even plan to use.

 

[guest_trader_1]

I think in the free deal the programmer wants to know everything about the model.

When you pay you don't have to give away everything, you can ask for a more general solution and tweak it to your exact requirements. You don't even have to tell the programmer which market(s) you really intend to trade. Just pick a random market and tell them different system parameters from the ones you intend to use in live trading. You can even make them add a few indicators that you never even plan to use.

You can do all of that for the free option as well. It is the same after all. Just seems to be a common behaviour that people think that developers will run away with their code. Like we didn't have entire terabytes of personal information at our disposal from our jobs and we don't do anything with it.

 

[Laissez Faire]

Good trading edges are like gold dust. It is hard to find really good edges.

If i spent a decade(s) doing endless hours of research, which i actually have as well, i wouldn't give that away to anyone.

Right. It's the giving it away part which for some reason is the hardest part. Some of the algorithms are quite easy in the end, but I spent a great deal amount to actually develop them. So, as I was spelling out some of the framework to better explain to this programmer I became painfully aware of all the sacrifices and hard work I did just to get to this stage.

It will never stop to amaze me how people can think that if they pay for a service that service is better than if it was free. I tried to collaborate for free so many times with so called "analysts". They all had the same fear: "he will steal my idea and run away". The minute I asked for 80 € / hour everything was fine, I got the same ideas/code and got paid as well. Amazing.

I never said that. Since this particular trader have some trading savvy and understanding I actually think it's possible the end result would be better than if I paid a programmer without trading savvy to do it.

I think in the free deal the programmer wants to know everything about the model.

When you pay you don't have to give away everything, you can ask for a more general solution and tweak it to your exact requirements. You don't even have to tell the programmer which market(s) you really intend to trade. Just pick a random market and tell them different system parameters from the ones you intend to use in live trading. You can even make them add a few indicators that you never even plan to use.

Exactly. These last few years I even shared the full program with source code to a few programmers as they were making some upgrades to the program.

None of these understood what it was they were looking at, so I didn't have any worries even sharing the whole thing. It's a very complex model and if you don't understand all the parameters (of which there are a ton) and how they inter-relate, you have no idea how to make any use of it. Think of it as a complex program without a user manual. As the end output is pretty much figures in a table it's even harder to understand.

If I do the collaboration deal it's expected that I share how everything works. Obviously.