why does religion matter?

[james_bond_3rd]

I think the reason for the decay of morals is too much TV. Remember the golden ages before TV was invented? Neither do I.

On second thought, I think it must have been women voting. Things started to go downhill when they allowed women to vote.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

I think the reason for the decay of morals is too much TV...

That may or may not be. Either way, too much TV points to an absence of good parenting.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

You seem quite confused.

I am not holding everyone blameless, I am only holding God blameless.

What man does is man's doing.

Oh, and morals cannot be taught, that is impossible.

Eventually, every person beyond a certain age has to decide for themselves what is right or wrong, and we see people coming from every type of family and education make different choices.

Your comment of Bush liking someone like me shows how genuinely disturbed you are...as everyone here knows what a critic of Bush I have been, especially his mixing his personal faith with his job as president.

Quote from Thunderdog:

My point was that the apparent increase in moral decay has less to do with religion and more to do with the way that people are being brought up. You seem to hold everyone blameless. Bush would like someone like you.

Yes, there are some kids who cannot be turned around, but for the most part, those who lack discipline and morals were never taught any. Or at least not enough. It is the absence of parents in sufficient doses, or the absence of good parenting and other important influences on a child rather than an absence of religion that contributes to the phenomenon that jem alluded to. Yes, outside influences are growing in number and kind, and things are a lot different than when we were kids. But if people want to have children, then they should be prepared to take some responsibility for them and raise them properly.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Oh, and morals cannot be taught, that is impossible.

Is this a joke? I don't see any smileys.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

You cannot teach morals.

A person can behave in a moral manner, and others can be attracted to that behavior and try to emulate it...but morality cannot be taught, no more than a rational thought process can be taught.

There is nothing new regarding morality, there are nearly limitless books for people to be read on the subject...but how an individual decides for themselves, cannot be taught.

Frankly, atheists like you and the others here have no reasonable explanation for why people are immoral, why ultimately people decide to be immoral rather than moral in their actions.

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

Is this a joke? I don't see any smileys.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

...Oh, and morals cannot be taught, that is impossible...

I'm not convinced of that. Except for sociopaths who genuinely lack any trace of empathy, I think that a "proper" upbringing can provide a moral compass. I think that the area is somewhat more gray than the black and white you believe it to be. A normal child's early, formative years are probably critical in this regard.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

...Your comment of Bush liking someone like me...

...was ironic, wasn't it?

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Morals are not taught by what authority figures say, but they are learned by those who observe them.

Children may be taught to not lie, steal, etc. but when they see their parents, teachers clergymen, politicians, police, etc. doing what was told them was wrong, they get quite confused.

Morals are learned by observation mostly, and when children see people doing the opposite of what they are taught, the come to the conclusion that is quite different than what they are taught.

Real morality has its basis in what we as people do when we think we could get away with it...

If we think we can get away with doing what is considered wrong, but we don't because we think it is wrong on principle...then we are functioning from a moral foundation, not out of fear of punishment for getting caught.

That clearly is not what is taught in society at large, and the proof is the massive and rampant corruption in every single institution in society.

Quote from Thunderdog:

I'm not convinced of that. Except for sociopaths who genuinely lack any trace of empathy, I think that a "proper" upbringing can provide a moral compass. I think that the area is somewhat more gray than the black and white you believe it to be. A normal child's early, formative years are probably critical in this regard.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

...Morals are learned by observation mostly, and when children see people doing the opposite of what they are taught, the come to the conclusion that is quite different than what they are taught...

So authority figures are inadvertently teaching youngsters the wrong things, and the kids are learning by these adults' examples rather than by their sermons of righteousness and rectitiude. Either way, both teaching and learning are going on, if not exactly as intended.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

...If we think we can get away with doing what is considered wrong, but we don't because we think it is wrong on principle...then we are functioning from a moral foundation, not out of fear of punishment for getting caught...

Which is precisely why I deplore the expression "God fearing."