why does religion matter?

Jefferson was not an atheist.

"I can never join Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

Neither was Franklin.

"Some books against Deism fell into my hands. ... They wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I became a thorough Deist."

http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/rants/0117almanac.htm

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

Not all founding fathers were christians. Thomas Jefferson was a well-known atheist. So was Ben Franklin. These were the two high-profile, well-known ones. If we researched more, we'd find quite a few others whose "Christian" belief was at best suspect.

This nation was not founded on Christianity, as some evangelicals want you to believe.
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I think the religious issue has become front and center because we are confronting terrorists who are religious based. The political religious rhetoric is for the terroist ears not ours. Beneath the surface, religion is a weapon.
 
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Jefferson was not an atheist.

"I can never join Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

Neither was Franklin.

"Some books against Deism fell into my hands. ... They wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I became a thorough Deist."

http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/rants/0117almanac.htm
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You misunderstood the Jefferson quote. The sentences following are: "His [Calvin's] religion was demonism. If ever a man worshiped a false god, he did. The being described in his five points is ... a demon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no God at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious, attributes of Calvin."

At the time this letter was written, atheist was not a neutral word as today. It was commonly used to mean a man without morals. Otherwise how could Jefferson contradict himself in the same breath, calling someone an atheist and saying that he worships a false god?

As for Franklin, he was indeed a Deist which is somewhere between a Christian and an atheist. But my original point, that this nation was not founded on Christian religion, is still valid.
 
Anyone who believes that a Christians faith is blind is so wrong.

If you were to read the bible or hear a sermon and this caused you to come to faith, it is because it is a confirmation of what you already know inside. That is true faith. Every human being knows that there is a God. Anyone who spends some time alone or in fasting, will become aware of a higher power that is all encompassing, whom we know and who knows us.

People believe in electricity, even though they can't see it. So, seeing is believing is a weak argument. There are so many things that we cannot see, yet we believe in. Just because you cannot see God, or haven't had the opportunity to perceive him or understand him, is not a reason to discount him.

There is nothing I or anyone else can tell a non-believer that will bring them to faith. But, they can bring themselves to faith, if they are open minded and willing to know if there really is more than what they see immediately.
 
ToTrade

Do you belive a christian president would do better then an atheist or a jewish president?

If you do belive this then you are racist. That would be like saying whites are better then blacks. Faith is not a choice for most, they are brainwashed as kids with no decision on which religion or church to go to.

This dissucsion is about the role of religion in our leaders and why it matters.
 
horryclutch,

I have said all that I wanted to say, in the hope that it may be helpful to you or someone else.

I hope that it helps you in some way.
 
No candidate is trying to push his religion onto you. They are simply expressing their faith because it’s important to them. If you find it offensive then it’s your problem. Don’t vote for him. If you think a president can breach the separation of church and state by his sheer expression of his faith, then you don’t understand how the Founders designed the federal government.

There has never been a real threat to our secularism, even when Christianity was 10,000 times more in everyone’s faces the first 100 years of America’s founding. The president can’t do much beyond cutting federal funding to things like stem cells. Big deal. The private sector picked up the slack on that.

This threat to secularism isn’t real at all. It’s all media hysteria and propaganda perpetuated by baby boomer journalists with vendettas against their parents who were more in tune with their faiths.

And while the liberals are busy stamping out Christianity, Islam barges right in. And Islam is FAR more dangerous to secularism than Christianity ever could be. The fact is that there will always be a constant percentage of human beings that need religion to explain death and the hardships of life. The founders understood this and set a system in place so that a nation where a people of faith and secularism could coexist.
Quote from horryclutch:

Every other respond in the GOP debate had some kind of religious, faith response. What happened to the separation of church and state.?

It does not matter one bit what people belive as long as he or she doesn't push this agenda on me. What i dont get is why the religious convictions of the candidate would make a difference.

religious people in general are not anymore moral then atheists. I want a president that is a workaholic. I want a president that does not let religion get in the way of this desicion making.
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Quote from james_bond_3rd:

You misunderstood the Jefferson quote. The sentences following are: "His [Calvin's] religion was demonism. If ever a man worshiped a false god, he did. The being described in his five points is ... a demon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no God at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious, attributes of Calvin."

At the time this letter was written, atheist was not a neutral word as today. It was commonly used to mean a man without morals. Otherwise how could Jefferson contradict himself in the same breath, calling someone an atheist and saying that he worships a false god?

As for Franklin, he was indeed a Deist which is somewhere between a Christian and an atheist. But my original point, that this nation was not founded on Christian religion, is still valid.
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I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.Thomas Jefferson
 
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