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Why did Europe open the door so much for Islamics?
- Thread starter noob_trad3r
- Start date
Huh? Yet again, achilles, I really don't see how you're able to make these sweeping generalizations. Europe isn't just Greece and France, you know? It's also countries like Germany, which has had reasonable social programs for decades and seems to be doing better than pretty much anyone else out there. Moreover, industrial base migrating to Asia? Sure, some countries in peripheral Europe, such as Italy, Spain, Portugal etc, which are characterized by rigid labor mkts and other such problems, have gotten de-industrialized over time, as a result of the loss of competitiveness. But Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, etc, which are all countries with relatively generous social policies, are some of the most advanced industrial nations out there and it's certainly not because of debt. For more interesting examples, look at Ireland or Japan. At any rate, I really don't see what you're talking about.Quote from achilles28:
The problem with yielding "middle ground" is it eventually ends in bankruptcy? Europe is a great example. For decades, "reasonable" social programs were adopted, and benefit plans paid out. Over time, it was only "reasonable" to expand such programs and pay out even higher and higher benefits to recipients, who by now, included everyone from pretty much every walk of life. Even Corporations! After all, in the interests of fairness, nobody could be denied a seat at the table. Lets be reasonable, after all... Europe also adopted "reasonable" free trade policies because they wanted to avoid the oft touted "evils" of protectionism. The problem with that is a good portion of their industrial base, migrated to Asia. 30 years later, and Europe is paying most her bills with debt. As is America. Soon the credit card will run out and we won't be able to afford all of our "reasonable" entitlement programs our citizens have come to expect, in the interest of "fairness" and "equality"....?
"As for the rest of it, Western fertility is plunging, while sterility has gone parabolic. Food additives, pesticides, GMO and BPA are responsible for that."
Yeah this..... but not really, more like education, affluence and birth control.
Seriously though, there are over two hundred man-made chemicals in every man, woman and child. La Grande experiment we all are these days. I've opted out of one them by eliminating canned goods as much as possible. (BPA) google it.
Yeah this..... but not really, more like education, affluence and birth control.
Seriously though, there are over two hundred man-made chemicals in every man, woman and child. La Grande experiment we all are these days. I've opted out of one them by eliminating canned goods as much as possible. (BPA) google it.
Quote from Martinghoul:
Huh? Yet again, achilles, I really don't see how you're able to make these sweeping generalizations. Europe isn't just Greece and France, you know? It's also countries like Germany, which has had reasonable social programs for decades and seems to be doing better than pretty much anyone else out there. Moreover, industrial base migrating to Asia? Sure, some countries in peripheral Europe, such as Italy, Spain, Portugal etc, which are characterized by rigid labor mkts and other such problems, have gotten de-industrialized over time, as a result of the loss of competitiveness. But Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, etc, which are all countries with relatively generous social policies, are some of the most advanced industrial nations out there and it's certainly not because of debt. For more interesting examples, look at Ireland or Japan. At any rate, I really don't see what you're talking about.
I think we would all agree, America was one of the greatest social experiments. The founders were not big on yielding the middle ground to the King. The founders were not unyielding in their desire for individual rights and limited govt.
Quote from jem:
I think we would all agree, America was one of the greatest social experiments. The founders were not big on yielding the middle ground to the King. The founders were not unyielding in their desire for individual rights and limited govt.
Things change. They didn't have to compete in a global environment nearly as we do today. As smart as they were, they were limited to their place and time, much like we are exposed to much more today. They, and we, have to work with what we are dealt. I hate saying 'flat earth society' - but it was only a couple hundred years before our Constitution that many still believed in that. OK, 300 years.
I can't imagine those great minds, after catching up with 200+ years of evolution, both social and financial, would be holding fast to many of their initial writings.
Remember, back then 90% were able to 'live off the land' hunt, fish, and all that. Land was free for the taking in many places. They didn't have millions of people trying to live off of finite resources. Just a different time. Kind of nice to think of, in some ways.
c
Quote from cgroupman:
Things change. They didn't have to compete in a global environment nearly as we do today. As smart as they were, they were limited to their place and time, much like we are exposed to much more today. They, and we, have to work with what we are dealt. I hate saying 'flat earth society' - but it was only a couple hundred years before our Constitution that many still believed in that. OK, 300 years.
I can't imagine those great minds, after catching up with 200+ years of evolution, both social and financial, would be holding fast to many of their initial writings.
Remember, back then 90% were able to 'live off the land' hunt, fish, and all that. Land was free for the taking in many places. They didn't have millions of people trying to live off of finite resources. Just a different time. Kind of nice to think of, in some ways.
c
great ideas, limited govt, no income tax, tariffs to protect important industries... those are still the formulas which work.
Many of them warn about yielding and predicted the problems we see today.
you pick the subject... we can so you their predictions and warnings.
"I am convinced that those societies (such as the Native American peoples) which live without government enjoy in their general mass an infinitely greater degree of happiness than those who live under the European governments. Among the former, public opinion is in the place of law, & restrains morals as powerfully as laws ever did anywhere. Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves & sheep. I do not exaggerate."
- Thomas Jefferson
"The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating."
- Thomas Jefferson
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country."
- Thomas Jefferson
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."
- Thomas Jefferson
"The system of banking we have both equally and ever reprobated. I contemplate it as a blot left in all our constitutions, which, if not covered, will end in their destruction. I sincerely believe, with you...that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson
"To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition. The incorporation of a bank, and the powers assumed by this bill [chartering the first Bank of the United States] have not, in my opinion, been delegated to the United States by the Constitution. They are not among the powers specially enumerated."
- Thomas Jefferson
"I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution - taking from the Federal government their power of borrowing (from privately-owned corporate banks)."
- Thomas Jefferson
"We are undone, my dear sir, if legislation is still permitted which makes our money, much or little, real or imaginary, as the moneyed interests shall choose to make it."
- Thomas Jefferson
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2004/241204centralbanking.htm
hamiliton on income tax.
The "Nanny" State
In Obama's Inaugural address, he called for the government to expand, so that it could solve the problems of the country. However, according to Sammy at Yidwithalid.blogspot.com, the Federalist papers written, by our country's Framers, spelled things out very differently.
Alexander Hamilton even argued against a Federal income tax, as he felt that with higher taxes, and therefore, money taken away from the people, the government becomes a burden to the people, rather than as one that assists the people. He also said that money taken away from the People also reduces consumption. Actually, the entire Republic was formed by revolting against the monarchical government of England that wanted to dig into the colonists' wallets.
http://vrajavala.hubpages.com/hub/Big-Government-What-the-Founding-Fathers-wanted
The "Nanny" State
In Obama's Inaugural address, he called for the government to expand, so that it could solve the problems of the country. However, according to Sammy at Yidwithalid.blogspot.com, the Federalist papers written, by our country's Framers, spelled things out very differently.
Alexander Hamilton even argued against a Federal income tax, as he felt that with higher taxes, and therefore, money taken away from the people, the government becomes a burden to the people, rather than as one that assists the people. He also said that money taken away from the People also reduces consumption. Actually, the entire Republic was formed by revolting against the monarchical government of England that wanted to dig into the colonists' wallets.
http://vrajavala.hubpages.com/hub/Big-Government-What-the-Founding-Fathers-wanted
Huh? I am not sure I see the point here, jem...
If the founding fathers had such unshakable faith in their own infallibility, why does the Constitution contain Article V? How many Amendments to the Constitution are there and why? In general, quoting the various founding fathers is kinda like quoting the Bible. You can pretty much find something for everyone.
If the founding fathers had such unshakable faith in their own infallibility, why does the Constitution contain Article V? How many Amendments to the Constitution are there and why? In general, quoting the various founding fathers is kinda like quoting the Bible. You can pretty much find something for everyone.
Quote from Martinghoul:
Huh? I am not sure I see the point here, jem...
If the founding fathers had such unshakable faith in their own infallibility, why does the Constitution contain Article V? How many Amendments to the Constitution are there and why? In general, quoting the various founding fathers is kinda like quoting the Bible. You can pretty much find something for everyone.
Providing for amendments does not mean they were compromising their principles.
If the founding fathers were yielding the middle ground we would still be talking English. I mean bowing to the queen.
This is sort of like the Einstein quote... do you think the universe is friendly...
You see the world through a lens which indicates to you compromising your principles for the sake of unity works.
I do not see it that way. If you principles are good by adhering to them you create a better society.
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty
Quote from Martinghoul:
Huh? I am not sure I see the point here, jem...
If the founding fathers had such unshakable faith in their own infallibility, why does the Constitution contain Article V? How many Amendments to the Constitution are there and why? In general, quoting the various founding fathers is kinda like quoting the Bible. You can pretty much find something for everyone.
True. but I think you do not recognize the context in which the founding fathers are regarded in America. Because of its youth and the need for a national myth to unify the nation, the founding fathers have an almost godlike status in the US.
Many people in fact do regard quoting the constitution and the words of the founding fathers with as much reverence as they quote the bible even though they are but mere fallible humans and historical research has borne that not all their actions were as morally upright as is popularly believed. Many of them in today's society such as Sam Adams would simply be regarded as hooligans and thugs. LOL But as I said, it serves a purpose to perpetuate the myth.
I know to a European this seems rather odd.