Who is this dumb bitch that McCain picked as VP Nominee?

[Pa(b)st Prime]

If you're kidding, good job, because I know you can't be serious.

If you are serious: What makes you think I give a fuck?

I don't.

Let a sociologist worry about causation. I pack heat and when black folk I don't like come too close my trigger finger gets a warm excited feeling.

Quote from Mike805:

Please tell me you understand the difference between environmental circumstances versus genetic ones? This ties into the nature versus nurture argument. I'd venture to say the the statistics you claim are a result of poverty and social circumstance, not SKIN color and genetic predispositions as you seem to imply. Poverty and circumstance cause people to do very disturbing things - no work and no education will cause many to turn to crime.

Your entire premise ignores this fact of societal inequality regarding income and quality of life, hence you are making judgments based purely on skin color and/or ethnicity. This is what makes you a racist/bigot.

 

[Fractals 'R Us]

I see that some of the posters are telling Pabst that he has to suspend reason or he is a racist. Some have concluded that in order to be on the left politically one has to suspend reason and I believe that now...

I heard Tammy Bruce telling a story once. She said she usually dodged across the street if she saw a black guy walking at her but this one time she decided to give the benefit of the doubt and the guy punched her in the face and took her purse... that's just life, suspend reason and you get sucker punched, now hard is that to grasp?

 

[cuz69]

Quote from Mike805:

Please tell me you understand the difference between environmental circumstances versus genetic ones? This ties into the nature versus nurture argument. I'd venture to say the the statistics you claim are a result of poverty and social circumstance, not SKIN color and genetic predispositions as you seem to imply. Poverty and circumstance cause people to do very disturbing things - no work and no education will cause many to turn to crime.

Your entire premise ignores this fact of societal inequality regarding income and quality of life, hence you are making judgments based purely on skin color and/or ethnicity. This is what makes you a racist/bigot.

Ok Mike I understand the point you are trying to make, however why is it that most of your poverty stricken neighborhoods are of one of color?

They have the same chance to get an education or get a job if they choose to. Instead of resorting to crime.

I am sure you may have been knocked down for one reason or another in your life. You got back up right?

In those type of communties they(not all) choose to take the easy way out.

So in essence, they do it to themselves.

 

[Mike805]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

If you're kidding, good job, because I know you can't be serious.

If you are serious: What makes you think I give a fuck?

I don't.

Let a sociologist worry about causation. I pack heat and when black folk I don't like come too close my trigger finger gets a warm excited feeling.

Wow.

First off, I'm not kidding.

Second, lets deconstruct what you just said: you don't care about the root CAUSE of society's ills, you would rather PACK A GUN. That's how you choose to deal with fear of "BLACK FOLK", and your own ignorance - with a gun.

I honestly thought you would be slightly more subliminal with respect to your "hidden" ... well... now very much exposed racism and idiocy.

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Why would I care about the educational/socio-economic background of an approaching armed robber? Ok you got me!! You have been kidding. Good one!!!!

Quote from Mike805:

Wow.

First off, I'm not kidding.

Second, lets deconstruct what you just said: you don't care about the root CAUSE of society's ills, you would rather PACK A GUN. That's how you choose to deal with fear of "BLACK FOLK", and your own ignorance - with a gun.

I honestly thought you would be slightly more subliminal with respect to your "hidden" ... well... now very much exposed racism and idiocy.

 

[Mike805]

Quote from cuz69:

Ok Mike I understand the point you are trying to make, however why is it that most of your poverty stricken neighborhoods are of one of color?

They have the same chance to get an education or get a job if they choose to. Instead of resorting to crime.

I am sure you may have been knocked down for one reason or another in your life. You got back up right?

In those type of communties they(not all) choose to take the easy way out.

So in essence, they do it to themselves.

I've had my run-ins with crime. When I was kid, we had to live in a car in downtown Oakland for a while and I watched all sorts of heavy shit happen. Prostitution, drugs, you name it - mostly black people. I got mugged in downtown SF by a group of black guys once when I was 15 and again in my early 20's (by two black guys). I've also seen WHITE meth dealers go to jail - a former family friend who was barred by the SEC for fraud turned to meth and now spends quite a bit of time in one of Lompoc's fine correctional facilities. I've been exposed to crime on BOTH sides of the race and economic scale.

Look, I'm not some bleeding heart liberal. But, people have a hard time moving across economic boundaries. It's a fact. Impoverished communities just DO NOT have the same opportunities - the parents of the kids in these impoverished niegborhoods generally aren't educated. They have poor health and low self-esteem. Their kids see drugs and violence everyday. They use drugs as a solution to their problems - i.e. a way out. They get used to this way of desperate thinking and never WANT to see another way out. And why should they see the other way? All they see is mom and dad working shit jobs (if they even have jobs) for shit pay... what kid would want to "work hard" and advance for what they see their parents struggling and being miserable at? Now you take a white kid in a suburban nieghborhood and the stats. change drastically... think of it this way: once your mind gets shaped early on by your environment you tend to hold on to certain beliefs. Many poor people have low dignity and low self-esteem, they pass that on to their children - it's a circle that is difficult to break. These kids will often act out on low self-esteem with violence and drugs.

The fact is the chances are not the same, if they were then the statistics Pabst (AKA Hitler) cites would be more evenly distributed across all racial/ethic groups.

There’s only so many times a kid is going to get back up.

 

[Mike805]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Why would I care about the educational/socio-economic background of an approaching armed robber? Ok you got me!! You have been kidding. Good one!!!!

You are twisting my point and ignoring the issue.

An "approaching armed robber" is just that. Why didn't you say "an approaching BLACK armed robber" instead? No... you didn't say that. You just said "BLACK FOLK".

Choose you words with care as they will come back to haunt you. Nothing is lost on the internet.

 

[cuz69]

Quote from Mike805:

I've had my run-ins with crime. When I was kid, we had to live in a car in downtown Oakland for a while and I watched all sorts of heavy shit happen. Prostitution, drugs, you name it - mostly black people. I got mugged in downtown SF by a group of black guys once when I was 15 and again in my early 20's (by two black guys). I've also seen WHITE meth dealers go to jail - a former family friend who was barred by the SEC for fraud turned to meth and now spends quite a bit of time in one of Lompoc's fine correctional facilities. I've been exposed to crime on BOTH sides of the race and economic scale.

Look, I'm not some bleeding heart liberal. But, people have a hard time moving across economic boundaries. It's a fact. Impoverished communities just DO NOT have the same opportunities - the parents of the kids in these impoverished niegborhoods generally aren't educated. They have poor health and low self-esteem. Their kids see drugs and violence everyday. They use drugs as a solution to their problems - i.e. a way out. They get used to this way of desperate thinking and never WANT to see another way out. And why should they see the other way? All they see is mom and dad working shit jobs (if they even have jobs) for shit pay... what kid would want to "work hard" and advance for what they see their parents struggling and being miserable at? Now you take a white kid in a suburban nieghborhood and the stats. change drastically... think of it this way: once your mind gets shaped early on by your environment you tend to hold on to certain beliefs. Many poor people have low dignity and low self-esteem, they pass that on to their children - it's a circle that is difficult to break. These kids will often act out on low self-esteem with violence and drugs.

The fact is the chances are not the same, if they were then the statistics Pabst (AKA Hitler) cites would be more evenly distributed across all racial/ethic groups.

There’s only so many times a kid is going to get back up.

Fair enough Mike,
You make some very good points, I am just not sure that I agree 100%, but some very objective/valid points.You have a very open mind it appears.

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Did you ever consider that perhaps many blacks are too ignorant, lazy or immoral to take advantage of their opportunity?

Why aren't Asians confronted by the same poverty issues? Or Cubans? Or Eastern-Euro whites?

In other words Mike you claim poverty causes crappy behavior. I contend crappy behavior causes poverty.

Quote from Mike805:

I've had my run-ins with crime. When I was kid, we had to live in a car in downtown Oakland for a while and I watched all sorts of heavy shit happen. Prostitution, drugs, you name it - mostly black people. I got mugged in downtown SF by a group of black guys once when I was 15 and again in my early 20's (by two black guys). I've also seen WHITE meth dealers go to jail - a former family friend who was barred by the SEC for fraud turned to meth and now spends quite a bit of time in one of Lompoc's fine correctional facilities. I've been exposed to crime on BOTH sides of the race and economic scale.

Look, I'm not some bleeding heart liberal. But, people have a hard time moving across economic boundaries. It's a fact. Impoverished communities just DO NOT have the same opportunities - the parents of the kids in these impoverished niegborhoods generally aren't educated. They have poor health and low self-esteem. Their kids see drugs and violence everyday. They use drugs as a solution to their problems - i.e. a way out. They get used to this way of desperate thinking and never WANT to see another way out. And why should they see the other way? All they see is mom and dad working shit jobs (if they even have jobs) for shit pay... what kid would want to "work hard" and advance for what they see their parents struggling and being miserable at? Now you take a white kid in a suburban nieghborhood and the stats. change drastically... think of it this way: once your mind gets shaped early on by your environment you tend to hold on to certain beliefs. Many poor people have low dignity and low self-esteem, they pass that on to their children - it's a circle that is difficult to break. These kids will often act out on low self-esteem with violence and drugs.

The fact is the chances are not the same, if they were then the statistics Pabst (AKA Hitler) cites would be more evenly distributed across all racial/ethic groups.

There’s only so many times a kid is going to get back up.

 

[Mike805]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Did you ever consider that perhaps many blacks are too ignorant, lazy or immoral to take advantage of their opportunity?

Yes I have considered it and I believed it for a while after the first time I got mugged. After traveling to a lot of different countries I changed my mind. What I concluded is that ALL people of ALL RACES and ALL COLORS can be ignorant, lazy and immoral and generally waste their opportunities. What seperates them and their belief systems is MONEY. Pure and simple. MONEY is the common theme. No money = crime and problems (more often than not).

Why aren't Asians confronted by the same poverty issues? Or Cubans? Or Eastern-Euro whites?
[/QUOTE]

Oh but they are. It just isn't as immediate as the black population is in Chicago. Note that this is the group that you are predominantly exposed to - stop and think about why you are focusing your fear so intently... Culturally, one can make the argument that America's history with slavery and the very recent (1960's) equality movement is still contributing to black people's socio-economic status. I don't have all the facts handy, but, in general I do not believe that generations of oppression and racism can be reversed in a matter of 40-50 years.


In other words Mike you claim poverty causes crappy behavior. I contend crappy behavior causes poverty. [/QUOTE]

They are intertwined. You can't just say A = B so we'll stop A and end B. That's not how people work.