Where Are All the New Market Wizards

[Laissez Faire]

It’s a different world

What's different, really? Beyond the increase in HFT volume and algorithmic trading.

I'd love to see a thorough study on differences between markets today and say 10 or 20 years ago.

I did mention in some other thread how I feel the market (that would be ES for me) these days is more noisy with deeper retraces, less follow through and more fake breaks compared with only 10 years ago.

But I can't quantify it (yet). And haven't yet found time to do a study on my own as the current priority is mastering today's market.

 

[Pekelo]

Seems like the only 2 wizards

Plenty of wizards in the 2000s. Retail trading is more popular than ever. Lots of success stories on WSB.

There are dozens of crypto millionaires, that is also trading/investing.

And there was the Hound of Hounslow, making 40 MM in a few years. Hell, Karen went from trading 10K to having a small HF with 230MM under management. (yeah it turned out bad, but started out good)
Tim Sykes with his bar mitzwah money. The Big Short boys. (that was at least 4 different groups of people) Don Miller and the jellies. Tim Grittani (1.5K to 1MM). Kyle Dennis (made 7MM)


If you want really big boys, let's count here Mark Cuban, who sold a completely worthless website to Yahoo for 6 Billion (that is with a B!) and protected the deal with options until it went through. If that is not one of the best trades ever, I don't know what is.

And of course John Paulson of 2007-2008 time frame, although not featured in the Big Short story. Made 5 B IIRC.

More people trading, more volatility, easier access ==>> more wizards.

 

[SanMiguel]

Seems like the only 2 wizards of the 2000s are John Arnold and CIS. All the others come from the 1980s.

Also does anyone worry that trading will change when the old wizards die off. If Jim simons, ken Griffen, ptj, druckenmiller, George soros, Bruce kovenor, and Ray Dalio die off, will trading be the same. Who will replace them and will old trading signals that work now stop working once they are no longer trading?

Err are you saying the trading signals are the Wizards?!

 

[SunTrader]

And just a month or so ago Bill Ackman had a nice little short that made $2.6 billion quickly.

Sure he also had HLF squeeezed on him a couple of years back.

Overall he's won more than lost bigtime.

 

[qlai]

but didn’t want Jack Schwaeger’s KISS of DEATH.

Hi, why is that? I thought most people got boosted into stardom. Surely can’t hurt to grow AUM.

 

[Mark Cuban]

If you want really big boys, let's count here Mark Cuban, who sold a completely worthless website to Yahoo for 6 Billion (that is with a B!) and protected the deal with options until it went through. If that is not one of the best trades ever, I don't know what is.

Hello, I appreciate the kind words, but to let you know, that website was not in the least bit worthless. Before I bought the website, the founder of the website wanted a way for people to receive broadcasts of sportsgames, including myself, which was part of the reason I invested into the company. The website was a huge success, and I did not sell it for 6 Billion, it was a little bit lower for 5.7 Billion. Sadly though, Yahoo has discontinued the service in 2002, which was all of Yahoo's decision. I enjoyed listening to those basketball games as much as anyone else, but it was all Yahoo's decision. God bless

 

[hilmy83]

Hello, I appreciate the kind words, but to let you know, that website was not in the least bit worthless. Before I bought the website, the founder of the website wanted a way for people to receive broadcasts of sportsgames, including myself, which was part of the reason I invested into the company. The website was a huge success, and I did not sell it for 6 Billion, it was a little bit lower for 5.7 Billion. Sadly though, Yahoo has discontinued the service in 2002, which was all of Yahoo's decision. I enjoyed listening to those basketball games as much as anyone else, but it was all Yahoo's decision. God bless

is this really Mr Cuban? The shark Cuban?

Hey I'm out by lake Hubbard if you wanna chat lol

www.theportfolioincome.com

 

[bone]

You realize that DRW has 1,000 employees, and a fair chunk of them gross numbers like that. I can name several Chicago firms that have prop traders on staff that can gross that or more. Jump, Belvedere, Peak 6, Geneva, TMG to name a few.

Tim Grittani (1.5K to 1MM). Kyle Dennis (made 7MM).

 

[Pekelo]

I did not sell it for 6 Billion, it was a little bit lower for 5.7 Billion.

What is 300 MM here or there between friends? The real reason I included you was the option protection, that was the real trade, not the website sale. Lots of paper millionaires lost everything when their company went to zero and their options didn't get vested in time.

https://libertythroughwealth.com/2018/08/23/mark-cuban-protected-his-fortune-with-options/

"The internet bubble had minted several other paper billionaires. But after the bubble popped in March 2000, few of them got to keep their newfound wealth. (Even Jeff Bezos watched his wealth evaporate as Amazon’s stock price dropped 95%.)

Mark Cuban was the rare exception.

That’s because he had the foresight to execute one of the most remarkable options trades in financial history.

After selling his company to Yahoo, Cuban must have suspected that Yahoo stock was funny money. (Alas, as part of his deal with Yahoo, Cuban was not allowed to sell his shares immediately.)

So Cuban entered a massive options trade to lock in much of the value of his $1.4 billion stake.

For every 100 shares of Yahoo stock, Cuban bought one put contract (strike $85) and sold one (strike $205). The term of each option was three years.

He bought and sold a total of 146,000 puts and 146,000 calls.

The cost of the puts precisely offset the premium of the calls. This made the trade essentially free."

"Had he not hedged his position, Cuban would have lost more than 85% of his wealth.
Instead, thanks to his options trade, Cuban managed to keep almost all of it."