What happens when there are too many guns in America

[Tony Stark]

I can get behind much of that - not so sure about the criminal prosecution side, but certainly some civil responsibility, including liability for damages.

But there's just too much money in it, and you're still going to have guns moving around. The guy who loses his firearm because he has poor security on it isn't causing all those deaths in Chicago. Going after him needs to happen because a firearm owner needs to be responsible for his firearm, period. But don't be surprised when deaths in Chicago continue unabated, no matter what the "news" articles say. Additionally, it doesn't address all the guns already out there.

I wouldn't support the legal gun owner who lost possession of the gun getting the same prison sentence as the criminal,but I would support 3 months to 2 years depending on the crime committed by the criminal with their gun.We need to make legal gun owners protect their guns like their freedom, finances, and ability to own firearms in the future depended on it.In one city alone(Houston) last reported yearly stats showed nearly 5000 guns reported stolen from vehicles.If people knew they could go to jail,be sued, and banned from owning guns if their gun was stolen from their car they would not be leaving them unattended in their cars.

As far as guns on the streets make the federal law for felons apply to all illegal possession of firearms cases.Federal law for felon in illegal possession of a firearm is 5 years.Less than 10% of arrest for illegal possession of a firearm are convicted felons.Federal law for illegal for possession of a fully automatic weapon is 10 years,virtually no one is arrested for illegal for possession of a fully automatic weapon and last I checked since Reagan banned fully automatic weapons in 1986 only 3 people have died in The US from a fully automatic weapon and 1 was an accident with a legal fully automatic weapon at a gun range.Non convicted felon criminals don't fear being caught with an illegal weapons because state laws and local prosecutors don't give them much time if any if they are caught with one.The law should be everyone who owns or has possession of a firearm has to have passed federal background check,if not its illegal possession and 5 years federal time.

 

[UsualName]

Again, how do you solve it?

The first thing that needs to happen is we need to find a way to get people out of the hypnotic state that makes them say things like guns are inanimate objects so can’t be blamed.

 

[Tsing Tao]

The first thing that needs to happen is we need to find a way to get people out of the hypnotic state that makes them say things like guns are inanimate objects so can’t be blamed.

I kinda figured you'd answer with snark and no substance, but that's OK. Tony provided some good thoughts.

Guns can be blamed for killing people like spoons can be blamed for making people fat. Ban spoons.

 

[Tsing Tao]

I wouldn't support the legal gun owner who lost possession of the gun getting the same prison sentence as the criminal,but I would support 3 months to 2 years depending on the crime committed by the criminal with their gun.We need to make legal gun owners protect their guns like their freedom, finances, and ability to own firearms in the future depended on it.In one city alone(Houston) last reported yearly stats showed nearly 5000 guns reported stolen from vehicles.If people knew they could go to jail,be sued, and banned from owning guns if their gun was stolen from their car they would not be leaving them unattended in their cars.

As far as guns on the streets make the federal law for felons apply to all illegal possession of firearms cases.Federal law for felon in illegal possession of a firearm is 5 years.Less than 10% of arrest for illegal possession of a firearm are convicted felons.Federal law for illegal for possession of a fully automatic weapon is 10 years,virtually no one is arrested for illegal for possession of a fully automatic weapon and last I checked since Reagan banned fully automatic weapons in 1986 only 3 people have died in The US from a fully automatic weapon and 1 was an accident with a legal fully automatic weapon at a gun range.Non convicted felon criminals don't fear being caught with an illegal weapons because state laws and local prosecutors don't give them much time if any if they are caught with one.The law should be everyone who owns or has possession of a firearm has to have passed federal background check,if not its illegal possession and 5 years federal time.

A lot to unpack on this. But let me ask you - do you think if someone is intent on committing murder they are going to care if you raise illegal possession of firearm to 5 years? I mean, they're already intent on committing murder.

As for the "because state laws and local prosecutors don't give them much time if any if they are caught with one" you've nailed the problem right there. Prosecutors are - right now - out there making catch and release laws (or rather, enforcing them) and you think they're going to go balls to the wall on firearm possession? I'm all for and completely concur with your recommendation on illegal firearm possession, but why don't we start with enforcing the laws that are on the books right now while we push to pass additional ones like the mandatory 5 years you mentioned (which is a great idea I fully support)?

 

[Tony Stark]

A lot to unpack on this. But let me ask you - do you think if someone is intent on committing murder they are going to care if you raise illegal possession of firearm to 5 years? I mean, they're already intent on committing murder.

As for the "because state laws and local prosecutors don't give them much time if any if they are caught with one" you've nailed the problem right there. Prosecutors are - right now - out there making catch and release laws (or rather, enforcing them) and you think they're going to go balls to the wall on firearm possession? I'm all for and completely concur with your recommendation on illegal firearm possession, but why don't we start with enforcing the laws that are on the books right now while we push to pass additional ones like the mandatory 5 years you mentioned (which is a great idea I fully support)?

State laws on the books are weak and dont work.Federal laws do which is why no one is being killed with fully automatic weapons and less than 10% of those arrested for illegal guns are convicted felons.

If someone is intent on committing murder the possession charge wont matter,but their ability to get a gun would be harder with a limited supply of illegal guns and fewer people willing to engage in the illegal gun trade because of harsher jail sentences.

If a person wanted to kill someone but could only do it a fully automatic weapon its likely they would be shit out of luck because they aren't available on the streets.A big reason why is because no one fucks with fully automatic weapons because illegal passion is 10 years federal prison time and prosecution.

I have family who deal with shady characters that could get me a semi auto hand gun,AR 15 or AK in a matter of hours.No matter how much I pay or wait they couldn't get me a fully automatic AR or AK.

Federal law keeps fully automatic weapons off the streets.Federal law keeps weapons out of the hands of most felons.And we have to address the thousands of guns that are getting into the hands of criminals from legal gun owners by holding them accountable.If there weren't 5,000 guns a year from just 1 city from car break ins hitting the streets in time the supply would start to dry up.Cost for illegal guns would then go up.Add harsher federal jail sentences and supply would go down even more because fewer criminals would dabble in the illegal gun trade.In time a difference would be made imo.All of this would not restrict legal gun owners from owning guns,unless they prove to be irresponsible with them.

 

[UsualName]

I kinda figured you'd answer with snark and no substance, but that's OK. Tony provided some good thoughts.

Guns can be blamed for killing people like spoons can be blamed for making people fat. Ban spoons.

Really poor analogy but it shows how well this idea of “inanimate objects” cannot be the cause is thought through. If you want to lose weight reduce calories.

 

[Bugenhagen]

When there are too many guns in Amercia, this will happen.

 

[Arnie]

In the 1990's Richmond had one of the highest homicide rates in the country. I recall one year where we were 2nd to Gary IN. But I never felt threatened going out to eat, drink, whatever. Reason being 99% of the homicides were in areas I never went to, or only went during the day.
In response they started Project Exile and it reduced homicides by over 30% in the first year. YOU HAVE TO PUT THE BAD GUYS IN JAIL. And that's exactly what that program did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proje...irst year of,, homicides declined another 21%.

 

[Tony Stark]

In the 1990's Richmond had one of the highest homicide rates in the country. I recall one year where we were 2nd to Gary IN. But I never felt threatened going out to eat, drink, whatever. Reason being 99% of the homicides were in areas I never went to, or only went during the day.
In response they started Project Exile and it reduced homicides by over 30% in the first year. YOU HAVE TO PUT THE BAD GUYS IN JAIL. And that's exactly what that program did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Exile#:~:text=During the first year of,, homicides declined another 21%.

Indeed.Part of my argument is federal laws and penalties need to handle this,not state laws,courts and prosecutors.5 and 10 year federal cases and penalties do deter criminals.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Really poor analogy but it shows how well this idea of “inanimate objects” cannot be the cause is thought through. If you want to lose weight reduce calories.

Right! Reduce calories. The responsibility is on the individual, not the spoon.

Just like the gun argument.