Did you forget, I've raised many different points/theories and all I heard was not so much a squeak of refute from a church mouse.
Yes, I've forgotten. I don't recall anything of substance. Wait, I do remember one. You said the disciples wrote the Bible from their coffins!!!!
Well, I don't remember anyone on these threads giving a decent explanation of how the book of Daniel was written before Jesus was born, with copies existing today that date to before Jesus' time, yet gives the prediction of when the Messiah would be on this earth, and that time aligns exactly with when Jesus came to earth.
@ph1l gave one explanation for prophesies in general, but I don't see how it could have happened that way. I'd have to find his quote to remember how he worded it, but something to the effect that only the prophesies that worked out were kept and the prophesies were self-fulfilled, meaning people made them come to pass, since they knew what was written. Sorry,
@ph1l, if I didn't get it right. I can't remember exactly what you wrote, but I think this was close.
When also considering that the Jews weren't expecting their Messiah to come to die but to reign, then it's not like there were thousands of Jewish boys deciding to try to be the Messiah during that time and then only the Jesus story survived. Instead, this points to a prediction made by revelation from God that actually did come to pass.
So, I'm listening carefully, what will you come up with to invalidate this set of facts? I added boldness and large letters to the bottom paragraph for emphasis.
https://jewsforjesus.org/learn/the-messianic-time-table-according-to-daniel-the-prophet/
The start of the 70 sevens
Daniel 9:25a
Daniel was clearly told when the 70 sevens would begin their countdown. Gabriel said, "Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem.…" The 70 sevens would begin with a decree involving the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem. Not everything in Persian chronology is as clear as we would like to have it, and there are still some gaps in our knowledge of history. But from what biblical and historical records we do have, there are four possible answers to the question of which decree the passage refers to.
One thing is certain: by the year 444 B.C.E., the countdown of the 70 sevens had begun.
One is the decree of Cyrus, issued somewhere between 538-536 B.C.E., which concerned the rebuilding of the Temple (2 Chronicles 36:22-23, Ezra 1:1-4, 6:1-5) and of the city of Jerusalem (Isaiah 44:28, Ezra 6:6-12), issued in the year 521 B.C.E.; it was a reaffirmation of the decree of Cyrus. A third possibility is the decree of Artaxerxes to Ezra (Ezra 7:11-26) issued in 458 B.C.E., which contained permission to proceed with the temple service. The last option is the decree of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah (Nehemiah 2:1-8), issued in the year 444 B.C.E. This decree specifically concerned the rebuilding of the walls around Jerusalem. Of these four possibilities, only the first and fourth are valid in fulfilling the wording Gabriel gave to Daniel. It goes beyond the purpose of this article to deal with the various arguments of either option, but one thing is certain: by the year 444 B.C.E., the countdown of the 70 sevens had begun.
The first 69 sevens
Daniel 9:25b
The 70 sevens are divided into three separate units—seven sevens, 62 sevens and one seven. During the first time period (49 years) Jerusalem would be "built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times." The second block of time (62 sevens, a total of 434 years) immediately followed the first for a total of 69 sevens, or 483 years.
It is at this point that we are told what the ending point is of the 69 sevens: "unto Messiah the Prince." As clearly as Daniel could have stated it, he taught that 483 years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem had been issued, Messiah would be here on earth.
The obvious conclusion is this: If Messiah was not on earth 483 years after a decree was issued to rebuild Jerusalem, then Daniel was a false prophet and his book has no business being in the Hebrew Scriptures. But if Daniel was correct and his prophecy was fulfilled, then who was the Messiah of whom he spoke?
