Trump attorneys' letter to Mueller spells out legal arguments against Trump sitting down for intervi

So you claimed Mueller is slow interviewing trump but Nixon nor Clinton were interviewed any faster,got it.

I said I didnt know when Nixon when or if Nixon was interviewed by the special prosecutor and you are to report the timeline on that since you are making some case on the example. So do that.

In regard to Clinton, we have established that Ken Star was unable to bring charges on the underlying charges to be investigated in his appointment and not because it took time to investigate them. He reached a dead end and then worked clinton over until he could get clinton to create a new crime/perjury to help him show that he had done something. And I have agreed that Mueller is doing the same thing and the fact that Ken Starr did it creating some precedent does not make it not a witch-hunt. It is just another example of a witch-hunt.

And, because you like to pretend you didnt see it first time. Nixon's situation was not a witch hunt. It arose as burglary crime and proceeded in a straight line where every month brought new evidence of his role in the crime or the coverup and convictions were related to that. not side shit about squeezing a staffer to nail them on perjury or investigating their taxes. Want to go again? Yup. Thought you did. Wait for your monday morning media package. You are going circles.

In any case, even if it took a long time, then a long time has already passed with Mueller. So he should be ready to go right? So let's go. Or will he need to tell the judge as he did in the russian company case that he wanted to indict them but he isnt really prepared to go to trial. Yeh, that's a winner. Let's do that.
 
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I said I didnt know when Nixon when or if Nixon was interviewed by the special prosecutor and you are to report the timeline on that since you are making some case on the example. So do that.

You made the statement that Mueller was taking to long to interview Trump.Other special counsels didn't do it any faster
 
So he should be ready to go right? So let's go.


He's going,Trump is using his office to stall.Trump holds the office of POTUS,Mueller has to give him the opportunity to cooperate.Trump needs to man up and tell Mueller hes not getting an interview
 
You made the statement that Mueller was taking to long to interview Trump.Other special counsels didn't do it any faster

posted to tonytard

I don't suffer fools lightly so I am putting you on ignore until about the middle of July or so until you can come up with some new material. Either post someone else's material which is your usual mode or stay out of any discussions where people are sharing their own thoughts. When you try to do that you get stuck right off and just go circular and repetitive as a way of covering up the fact that nothing is really going on in your mind.

There is going to be some extremely important material released in DC - on several fronts- in the next six weeks and I am mostly interested in interacting with posters who want to advance the discussion. I don't want to see your tripe in with it but am wishing you well during that period.

on ignore for six weeks or so. big hug to you.
 
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I don't suffer fools lightly so I am putting you on ignore until about the middle of July or so until you can come up with some new material. Either post someone else's material which is your usual mode or stay out of any discussions where people are sharing their own thoughts. When you try to do that you get stuck right off and just go circular and repetitive as a way of covering up the fact that nothing is really going on in your mind.

There is going to be some extremely important material released in DC - on several fronts- in the next six weeks and I am mostly interested in interacting with posters who want to advance the discussion. I don't want to see your tripe in with it but am wishing you well during that period.

on ignore for six weeks or so. big hug to you.


Dont be a pussy (although I'm sure you'd love trump to grab you),put me on ignore for life.
 
I don't suffer fools lightly so I am putting you on ignore until about the middle of July or so until you can come up with some new material. Either post someone else's material which is your usual mode or stay out of any discussions where people are sharing their own thoughts. When you try to do that you get stuck right off and just go circular and repetitive as a way of covering up the fact that nothing is really going on in your mind.

There is going to be some extremely important material released in DC - on several fronts- in the next six weeks and I am mostly interested in interacting with posters who want to advance the discussion. I don't want to see your tripe in with it but am wishing you well during that period.

on ignore for six weeks or so. big hug to you.


Btw, you are the one who usually responds to me first,as you did in this thread,not the other way around.
 
Robert Mueller, Ken Starr and the ‘witch Hunt’ narrative

As President Trump began characterizing special prosecutor Robert Mueller’s investigation as a “setup,” a “hoax” and a “witch hunt,” leading Democrats and ruling media elites experienced a collective meltdown.

Nancy Pelosi called on House Speaker Paul Ryan to “protect” Mueller from the president’s “proven disdain for the rule of law.” Brent Budowsky, a longtime Democratic operative on Capitol Hill, wrote that the Justice Department’s inspector general should “condemn” Trump.

The chorus of media voices who described Trump’s attacks on Mueller’s investigation as an “assault on the rule of law” became so numerous that in acronym-happy Washington it could have been rendered in all-caps: AOTROL. Other familiar phrases keep showing up, too. The headlines tell the story:

“How Trump’s ‘War’ on the ‘Deep State’ Is Leading to the Dismantling of Government” (NPR)

“Trump’s Fear of Deep State Coup Has Become Full-Blown Hysteria” (Vanity Fair)

“Trump Weaponizes ‘Deep State’ to Investigate His Investigators” (NBC News)

“Trump’s Go-To Strategy Remains: Undermining Our Institutions” (Fiscal Times)

“Trump Is Helping to Undermine U.S. Democracy. That’s Just What Russia Wants” (CNN)

“Trump’s Attack on the FBI is an Attack on the U.S. Constitution Itself” (The Guardian)

The source of all this outrage has been the effort by Trump and his Republican allies to undermine confidence in Mueller’s investigation by impugning his supposed partiality. Democrats and the media are shocked, shocked, anyone would stoop so low. To that claim, a fair-minded American with even a smidgen of historical memory might say, “Ken Starr, call your libel lawyer.”

Twenty years ago, Starr was the independent counsel appointed to probe the sketchy business dealings of another U.S. president. Like Mueller, Starr came across other stuff, some of it sexual in nature. Also like Mueller, Starr didn’t feel constrained to limit his inquiry to the original allegations. Clinton and his defenders found this unjust and decided to methodically take the bark off Ken Starr.

“There’s going to be a war,” James Carville told the media. Just to be clear what that meant, an unnamed White House official told The New York Times that this war was “part of our continuing campaign to destroy Ken Starr.”

Most of the anti-Starr campaign was conducted in plain sight, as apparent to the world as Donald Trump’s tweeting habits. Five days after Whitewater exploded into an investigation about sex with a White House intern — and the president’s possible perjury in trying to cover it up — Carville sidekick Paul Begala called Starr’s probe “a scuzzy investigation” based on “leaks and lies and manufactured evidence.”

Two weeks later, Begala told NBC’s “Meet the Press” that Starr was “corrupt” and “out of control.” Begala demanded another special counsel to investigate the leaks, as Trump has done, and he, too, used the term “witch hunt.”

“There are serious questions of wrongdoing here, and I think we need a truly independent investigation of the investigation itself,” Begala added.

As Washington awaited Starr’s report, Clinton’s team was so confident of their strategy that they shared their stage directions with journalists. “I’m going to be there to diminish the political impact of the report,” Carville said flatly. “That’s been my strategy from Day One.”

White House spokesman Joe Lockhart decried “a campaign of misinformation and intimidation that a person could only reasonably conclude comes from the independent counsel’s office.” As things turned out, however, Clinton was the one who had lied: to his family, to his cabinet, to his attorney — and to people like Carville and Begala who were defending him so passionately. By the time those facts were revealed, however, the plan to discredit the independent counsel had worked: Before his final report was released, Ken Starr was damaged goods.

If you don’t remember the ensuing media frenzy about how the president’s loyalists had destroyed the republic by undermining faith in America’s institutions, that’s because it didn’t happen. And, if you’re hazy on how this launched the #MeToo movement, well, that didn’t happen either.

Some of the same feminists who find Trump’s treatment of women so grotesque that they want him removed from office were busy defending Clinton in 1998, when they weren’t taking political money and professional advice from Harvey Weinstein, who even then was bullying and preying on women.

Is 20 years a long time ago? Perhaps, but some women recognized the hypocrisy at the time. Time magazine’s Barbara Ehrenreich pointed out what should have been obvious to anyone. “If sexual harassment is a crime — and it was feminists who fought to make it one,” she noted, “then it’s just as much a crime when nice-guy Democrats do it to right-leaning women with the wrong kind of hair.”

Another feminist journalist, Marjorie Williams, was even tougher. She spotlighted a series of dodges by prominent Democratic officeholders, from Nancy Pelosi’s creative inversion (she questioned Ken Starr’s “humiliation” of the women he dragged before the grand jury) to Sen. Carol Moseley-Braun’s fanciful twist: “Not so many years ago, a woman couldn’t be a White House intern.” The most sinister deflection came from Gloria Steinem, whose New York Times op-ed disparaged Clinton’s female accusers and dismissed serial sexual harassment charges against him as a man making “passes” at women – and showing himself to be a guy who took “no” for an answer.

This wasn’t 1798, mind you, it was 1998 — seven years after feminists rallied around Clarence Thomas accuser Anita Hill for the simple reason that millions of American women had experienced harassment themselves. The excuses proffered on Clinton’s behalf made a mockery of feminist teaching on sexual misconduct in the workplace and exposed contemporary feminism, in the words of writer Caitlin Flanagan, “as a weaponized auxiliary of the Democratic Party.”

Was there any limit to what these women would tolerate? In a conversation with Marjorie Williams, Steinem offered two: if Clinton had beaten up his wife or raped women. A low bar, but not low enough as it turned out. Later that year, Juanita Broaddrick leveled a credible accusation of forcible rape against Clinton. The sisterhood still stood behind their president; the media, by and large, cooperated.


While on the subject of hypocrisy, let’s not forget the House Republicans who denounced Clinton as a serial creep while sidestepping the numerous sexual picadilloes among their own congressional leaders. We didn’t impeach him for sex, they replied; it was for the lying. Really? So you’re saying Trump is telling the truth about the many women who’ve described sexual encounters with The Donald? Leave Bob Mueller out of it for a moment and say that with a straight face.

Here, the Republicans have fallen into the same trap Democrats did 20 years ago. We need Bill Clinton in office, said feminists and other party liberals, to protect Roe v. Wade and other progressive initiatives. Clinton pushed this narrative himself, claiming Republicans were attempting “a coup” — a word you hear from Trump’s defenders today — and were trying to overturn the results of the election. This was nonsense, then, and it’s nonsense today. The Republicans who tried to remove Bill Clinton from office weren’t attempting to replace him with Bob Dole. They were trying to make Al Gore president.

If Donald Trump’s enemies drive him from office, Hillary doesn’t get to be president. Mike Pence does. Republicans might want to start thinking about that.

Carl M. Cannon is executive editor and Washington bureau chief of RealClearPolitics.

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/06/02/robert-mueller-ken-starr-and-the-witch-hunt-narrative/

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/04/2...to-the-editor-for-the-orange-county-register/
https://checkout.ocregister.com/subscriptionpanel
 
Robert Mueller, Ken Starr and the ‘witch Hunt’ narrative

As President Trump began characterizing special prosecutor Robert Mueller’s investigation as a “setup,” a “hoax” and a “witch hunt,” leading Democrats and ruling media elites experienced a collective meltdown.

Nancy Pelosi called on House Speaker Paul Ryan to “protect” Mueller from the president’s “proven disdain for the rule of law.” Brent Budowsky, a longtime Democratic operative on Capitol Hill, wrote that the Justice Department’s inspector general should “condemn” Trump.

The chorus of media voices who described Trump’s attacks on Mueller’s investigation as an “assault on the rule of law” became so numerous that in acronym-happy Washington it could have been rendered in all-caps: AOTROL. Other familiar phrases keep showing up, too. The headlines tell the story:

“How Trump’s ‘War’ on the ‘Deep State’ Is Leading to the Dismantling of Government” (NPR)

“Trump’s Fear of Deep State Coup Has Become Full-Blown Hysteria” (Vanity Fair)

“Trump Weaponizes ‘Deep State’ to Investigate His Investigators” (NBC News)

“Trump’s Go-To Strategy Remains: Undermining Our Institutions” (Fiscal Times)

“Trump Is Helping to Undermine U.S. Democracy. That’s Just What Russia Wants” (CNN)

“Trump’s Attack on the FBI is an Attack on the U.S. Constitution Itself” (The Guardian)

The source of all this outrage has been the effort by Trump and his Republican allies to undermine confidence in Mueller’s investigation by impugning his supposed partiality. Democrats and the media are shocked, shocked, anyone would stoop so low. To that claim, a fair-minded American with even a smidgen of historical memory might say, “Ken Starr, call your libel lawyer.”

Twenty years ago, Starr was the independent counsel appointed to probe the sketchy business dealings of another U.S. president. Like Mueller, Starr came across other stuff, some of it sexual in nature. Also like Mueller, Starr didn’t feel constrained to limit his inquiry to the original allegations. Clinton and his defenders found this unjust and decided to methodically take the bark off Ken Starr.

“There’s going to be a war,” James Carville told the media. Just to be clear what that meant, an unnamed White House official told The New York Times that this war was “part of our continuing campaign to destroy Ken Starr.”

Most of the anti-Starr campaign was conducted in plain sight, as apparent to the world as Donald Trump’s tweeting habits. Five days after Whitewater exploded into an investigation about sex with a White House intern — and the president’s possible perjury in trying to cover it up — Carville sidekick Paul Begala called Starr’s probe “a scuzzy investigation” based on “leaks and lies and manufactured evidence.”

Two weeks later, Begala told NBC’s “Meet the Press” that Starr was “corrupt” and “out of control.” Begala demanded another special counsel to investigate the leaks, as Trump has done, and he, too, used the term “witch hunt.”

“There are serious questions of wrongdoing here, and I think we need a truly independent investigation of the investigation itself,” Begala added.

As Washington awaited Starr’s report, Clinton’s team was so confident of their strategy that they shared their stage directions with journalists. “I’m going to be there to diminish the political impact of the report,” Carville said flatly. “That’s been my strategy from Day One.”

White House spokesman Joe Lockhart decried “a campaign of misinformation and intimidation that a person could only reasonably conclude comes from the independent counsel’s office.” As things turned out, however, Clinton was the one who had lied: to his family, to his cabinet, to his attorney — and to people like Carville and Begala who were defending him so passionately. By the time those facts were revealed, however, the plan to discredit the independent counsel had worked: Before his final report was released, Ken Starr was damaged goods.

If you don’t remember the ensuing media frenzy about how the president’s loyalists had destroyed the republic by undermining faith in America’s institutions, that’s because it didn’t happen. And, if you’re hazy on how this launched the #MeToo movement, well, that didn’t happen either.

Some of the same feminists who find Trump’s treatment of women so grotesque that they want him removed from office were busy defending Clinton in 1998, when they weren’t taking political money and professional advice from Harvey Weinstein, who even then was bullying and preying on women.

Is 20 years a long time ago? Perhaps, but some women recognized the hypocrisy at the time. Time magazine’s Barbara Ehrenreich pointed out what should have been obvious to anyone. “If sexual harassment is a crime — and it was feminists who fought to make it one,” she noted, “then it’s just as much a crime when nice-guy Democrats do it to right-leaning women with the wrong kind of hair.”

Another feminist journalist, Marjorie Williams, was even tougher. She spotlighted a series of dodges by prominent Democratic officeholders, from Nancy Pelosi’s creative inversion (she questioned Ken Starr’s “humiliation” of the women he dragged before the grand jury) to Sen. Carol Moseley-Braun’s fanciful twist: “Not so many years ago, a woman couldn’t be a White House intern.” The most sinister deflection came from Gloria Steinem, whose New York Times op-ed disparaged Clinton’s female accusers and dismissed serial sexual harassment charges against him as a man making “passes” at women – and showing himself to be a guy who took “no” for an answer.

This wasn’t 1798, mind you, it was 1998 — seven years after feminists rallied around Clarence Thomas accuser Anita Hill for the simple reason that millions of American women had experienced harassment themselves. The excuses proffered on Clinton’s behalf made a mockery of feminist teaching on sexual misconduct in the workplace and exposed contemporary feminism, in the words of writer Caitlin Flanagan, “as a weaponized auxiliary of the Democratic Party.”

Was there any limit to what these women would tolerate? In a conversation with Marjorie Williams, Steinem offered two: if Clinton had beaten up his wife or raped women. A low bar, but not low enough as it turned out. Later that year, Juanita Broaddrick leveled a credible accusation of forcible rape against Clinton. The sisterhood still stood behind their president; the media, by and large, cooperated.


While on the subject of hypocrisy, let’s not forget the House Republicans who denounced Clinton as a serial creep while sidestepping the numerous sexual picadilloes among their own congressional leaders. We didn’t impeach him for sex, they replied; it was for the lying. Really? So you’re saying Trump is telling the truth about the many women who’ve described sexual encounters with The Donald? Leave Bob Mueller out of it for a moment and say that with a straight face.

Here, the Republicans have fallen into the same trap Democrats did 20 years ago. We need Bill Clinton in office, said feminists and other party liberals, to protect Roe v. Wade and other progressive initiatives. Clinton pushed this narrative himself, claiming Republicans were attempting “a coup” — a word you hear from Trump’s defenders today — and were trying to overturn the results of the election. This was nonsense, then, and it’s nonsense today. The Republicans who tried to remove Bill Clinton from office weren’t attempting to replace him with Bob Dole. They were trying to make Al Gore president.

If Donald Trump’s enemies drive him from office, Hillary doesn’t get to be president. Mike Pence does. Republicans might want to start thinking about that.

Carl M. Cannon is executive editor and Washington bureau chief of RealClearPolitics.

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/06/02/robert-mueller-ken-starr-and-the-witch-hunt-narrative/

Some politicians definitely did not like Clinton but disliked the idea of witch-hunting and trying to overturn elections through the impeachment process even more.

Example. I lived in a state where both senators were women and did not like the idea of a president/Clinton using power to monkey around in the white house. (oops, might have said something racist there, sorry). And they were both REPUBLICANS. And they both voted AGAINST impeachment. Probably those days are somewhat over now.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/03/politics/chris-christie-rudy-giuliani-russia-investigation/index.html

Chris Christie: 'Outrageous claim' that Trump cannot obstruct justice

By Veronica Stracqualursi, CNN

Updated 1:29 PM ET, Sun June 3, 2018

Washington (CNN)Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie knocked the claim from Donald Trump's legal team that, by nature of his office, the President cannot obstruct justice and could simply shut down the Russia investigation altogether.

"It's an outrageous claim, it's wrong," the former Republican governor said on ABC News' "This Week."

The argument from the President's lawyers, Jay Sekulow and then-Trump attorney John Dowd, came in a confidential January letter to special counsel Robert Mueller, who is investigating Russian meddling in the 2016 election, including a related question of whether Trump has obstructed justice with regard to that probe.

The lawyers wrote in the 20-page letter that the President cannot illegally obstruct the Russia probe because he, as the top law enforcement officer, has authority over all federal investigations.

Christie, who was a former federal prosecutor before becoming governor, added that Trump's' legal team "was trying to make a broad argument."

"It remains our position that the President's actions here, by virtue of his position as the chief law enforcement officer, could neither constitutionally nor legally constitute obstruction because that would amount to him obstructing himself, and that he could, if he wished, terminate the inquiry, or even exercise his power to pardon if he so desired," they wrote in the letter, which The New York Times published Saturday.

The two argued that "no President has ever faced charges of obstruction merely for exercising his constitutional authority" and that a president can "order the termination" of a Justice Department or FBI investigation "at any time and for any reason."

On Sunday, Christie pointed to Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani's comments earlier Sunday on ABC's "This Week," in which Giuliani appeared to downplay the argument from Sekulow and Dowd, who resigned in March, that Trump could shut down the Russia probe if he so chooses. Giuliani was not part of Trump's counsel when Dowd and Sekulow sent the letter to Mueller.
"You'd have to ask John exactly what he's relying on for that," Giuliani told ABC News. "I would not go that far."

Giuliani added that Trump has no plans to pardon himself, but that he probably could.
"He has no intention of pardoning himself," Giuliani said. He added, "It would be an open question. I think it would probably get answered by gosh, that's what the Constitution says, and if you want to change it, change it. But yes."

Giuliani also said on NBC's "Meet the Press" Sunday that Trump pardoning himself is "unthinkable" and "would lead to probably an immediate impeachment."

Former US attorney Preet Bharara said Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union" that it "would be outrageous" for a sitting president to pardon himself.

"I think (if) the President decided he was going to pardon himself, I think that's almost self-executing impeachment," Bharara, a CNN legal analyst, said. "Whether or not there is a minor legal argument that some law professor somewhere in a legal journal can make that the President can pardon, that's not what the framers could have intended. That's not what the American people, I think, would be able to stand for."
 
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