Tim Morge and the well-chosen example

[carguy0001]

Just for the record , the NFA website lists the following for Blackthorn Capital run by Timothy Alan Morge of Prescott , Az:
NFA MEMBER WITHDRAWN 10/05/2017
COMMODITY TRADING ADVISOR WITHDRAWN 10/05/2017

Any clue why he would do this? Did he give up managing money to become a full time instructor?

 

[Xela]

Any clue why he would do this?

I know nothing about Tim Morge, and I cast no specific aspersions at all, but for what it's worth (if anything) I offer the general observation that for many people, and particularly for those with a background that makes them sound credible, it's much easier to make a living as a trading-related vendor (maybe using the term somewhat loosely?) than it is from trading, themselves.

 

[ChipShotTrader]

Just for the record , the NFA website lists the following for Blackthorn Capital run by Timothy Alan Morge of Prescott , Az:
NFA MEMBER WITHDRAWN 10/05/2017
COMMODITY TRADING ADVISOR WITHDRAWN 10/05/2017

Any clue why he would do this? Did he give up managing money to become a full time instructor?

I don’t think Blackthorne Capital has managed any capital for many years. As mentioned above by “Xela”, Tim Morge’s income comes from his teaching at Market Geometry...

And now that Mr. Timothy Morge has been fully exposed as having completely made up his credentials, and the size of his fund (and trades), I think it will now be VERY hard for him to find students willing to pay $500-$800 a month, 6 months in advance. Probably nearly impossible to find people willing to pay $25,000 for 12 sessions of “Mentoring”. Anyone considering paying that much money, will do a simple google search, and come across this thread, and look at the cold, hard facts...

 

[Hyperbole]

Going to offer some counter input here. I still don't believe this case is closed on Tim Morge. Someone post a link from 2004 from his website as scammer 'proof'. Here's his bio at the time 14 years ago:

"Blackthorne Capital was founded in 1991 by Timothy Morge. He began his career as a currency trader at Harris Bank, in Chicago. He left Harris to become the Chief Trader at the First National Bank of Chicago, now known as Bank One; three years later, he was made Senior Manager of the Foreign Exchange business line. In 1989, Mr. Morge was named Managing Director of a newly created business unit, Proprietary Trading. In this new position, he was responsible for trading performance and risk management of an internal portfolio worth in excess of US $2 Billion. The Proprietary Trading unit changed into a sub corporation of First Chicago in 1993 and Mr. Morge was named Managing Director, Senior Partner and Head of Trading of the new entity, First Chicago Trading Consultants."

This much is fact. So we are supposed to assume this guy has such little knowledge of trading despite his above positions and qualifications that he has to make money selling subscriptions on his website (which he does not even advertise).

Also, it was argued 'how could he manage such a large amount of money? The wayback machine shows a couple million under management 14 years ago' -- to me that appears to be one fund and this was about a decade ago... also it was profitable. The link cited to prove Tim is a scam shows a profitable trading record. So if we're assuming this wayback machine link is truth (in order to call him a scammer), then should we also assume his profitable trading record then is truth too... imagine his improvement 14 years later if he was profitable then. People improve, assets under management grow, not sure how that's representative of current times.

I think the truth lies somewhere in between, he might be embellishing details of his life to prove points, who knows. He's obviously been associated with trading for at least 30-40 years at some big trading institutions. You think he worked in several Senior levels positions because he knew nothing and was a fraud?

Also, everyone references Peter Brandt as some beacon of truth in this industry. Brandt likes to advertise his 41.6% ROR. Originally he claimed this was an Audit and changed it to a "Letter of Attestation" once this website called him out. Peter Brandt has his own shenanigans as well...

https://thelonelytraderv2.wordpress.com/2017/10/24/peter-brandt-another-fake-trader/

 

[ChipShotTrader]

Going to offer some counter input here. I still don't believe this case is closed on Tim Morge. Someone post a link from 2004 from his website as scammer 'proof'. Here's his bio at the time 14 years ago:

"Blackthorne Capital was founded in 1991 by Timothy Morge. He began his career as a currency trader at Harris Bank, in Chicago. He left Harris to become the Chief Trader at the First National Bank of Chicago, now known as Bank One; three years later, he was made Senior Manager of the Foreign Exchange business line. In 1989, Mr. Morge was named Managing Director of a newly created business unit, Proprietary Trading. In this new position, he was responsible for trading performance and risk management of an internal portfolio worth in excess of US $2 Billion. The Proprietary Trading unit changed into a sub corporation of First Chicago in 1993 and Mr. Morge was named Managing Director, Senior Partner and Head of Trading of the new entity, First Chicago Trading Consultants."

This much is fact. So we are supposed to assume this guy has such little knowledge of trading despite his above positions and qualifications that he has to make money selling subscriptions on his website (which he does not even advertise).

Also, it was argued 'how could he manage such a large amount of money? The wayback machine shows a couple million under management 14 years ago' -- to me that appears to be one fund and this was about a decade ago... also it was profitable. The link cited to prove Tim is a scam shows a profitable trading record. So if we're assuming this wayback machine link is truth (in order to call him a scammer), then should we also assume his profitable trading record then is truth too... imagine his improvement 14 years later if he was profitable then. People improve, assets under management grow, not sure how that's representative of current times.

I think the truth lies somewhere in between, he might be embellishing details of his life to prove points, who knows. He's obviously been associated with trading for at least 30-40 years at some big trading institutions. You think he worked in several Senior levels positions because he knew nothing and was a fraud?

Also, everyone references Peter Brandt as some beacon of truth in this industry. Brandt likes to advertise his 41.6% ROR. Originally he claimed this was an Audit and changed it to a "Letter of Attestation" once this website called him out. Peter Brandt has his own shenanigans as well...

https://thelonelytraderv2.wordpress.com/2017/10/24/peter-brandt-another-fake-trader/

Dear Hyperbole,

Throughout Market Geometry’s Interactive Brokers webinars, Timothy Morge claims to have 3 Phds (Mathematics, Physics, and Economics). This is simply not true. That is deceit (fraud?).

He also claims to teach graduate level students at MIT. Proven to be NOT true.

All Peter Brandt says is that Jack Schwager has NO idea who Timothy Morge is. Schwager wrote the Market Wizards book series. Timothy Morge has stated that he knew Schwager well, from Commodities Corporation, but declined to be interviewed. That is another lie.

Morge was certainly a bank employee. Surely, assets under management grow, but highly unlikely to go from 4M to HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS!

Using the Wayback Machine, feel free to go through the years (and enjoy). Morge has stated that back in 2000, he was one of the largest and most active ES traders in the world! He also said that in ONE year he paid $2 Million for “clean” TICK data. Yet, Blackthorne Capital had less than $2M under management, at the time. Think about that.

I guess there is a fine line between “embellishing” details of your life, and “lying” to market yourself.

Case Closed, and time to move on.[/QUOTE]

 

[ChipShotTrader]

Dear Hyperbole,

Throughout Market Geometry’s Interactive Brokers webinars, Timothy Morge claims to have 3 Phds (Mathematics, Physics, and Economics). This is simply not true. That is deceit (fraud?).

He also claims to teach graduate level students at MIT. Proven to be NOT true.

All Peter Brandt says is that Jack Schwager has NO idea who Timothy Morge is. Schwager wrote the Market Wizards book series. Timothy Morge has stated that he knew Schwager well, from Commodities Corporation, but declined to be interviewed. That is another lie.

Morge was certainly a bank employee. Surely, assets under management grow, but highly unlikely to go from 4M to HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS!

Using the Wayback Machine, feel free to go through the years (and enjoy). Morge has stated that back in 2000, he was one of the largest and most active ES traders in the world! He also said that in ONE year he paid $2 Million for “clean” TICK data. Yet, Blackthorne Capital had less than $2M under management, at the time. Think about that.

I guess there is a fine line between “embellishing” details of your life, and “lying” to market yourself.

Case Closed, and time to move on.

[/QUOTE]

See attached screenshot. It’s NOT one fund, it’s total capital in ALL programs (3.7M).

 

[ChipShotTrader]

Going to offer some counter input here. I still don't believe this case is closed on Tim Morge. Someone post a link from 2004 from his website as scammer 'proof'. Here's his bio at the time 14 years ago:

"Blackthorne Capital was founded in 1991 by Timothy Morge. He began his career as a currency trader at Harris Bank, in Chicago. He left Harris to become the Chief Trader at the First National Bank of Chicago, now known as Bank One; three years later, he was made Senior Manager of the Foreign Exchange business line. In 1989, Mr. Morge was named Managing Director of a newly created business unit, Proprietary Trading. In this new position, he was responsible for trading performance and risk management of an internal portfolio worth in excess of US $2 Billion. The Proprietary Trading unit changed into a sub corporation of First Chicago in 1993 and Mr. Morge was named Managing Director, Senior Partner and Head of Trading of the new entity, First Chicago Trading Consultants."

This much is fact. So we are supposed to assume this guy has such little knowledge of trading despite his above positions and qualifications that he has to make money selling subscriptions on his website (which he does not even advertise).

Also, it was argued 'how could he manage such a large amount of money? The wayback machine shows a couple million under management 14 years ago' -- to me that appears to be one fund and this was about a decade ago... also it was profitable. The link cited to prove Tim is a scam shows a profitable trading record. So if we're assuming this wayback machine link is truth (in order to call him a scammer), then should we also assume his profitable trading record then is truth too... imagine his improvement 14 years later if he was profitable then. People improve, assets under management grow, not sure how that's representative of current times.

I think the truth lies somewhere in between, he might be embellishing details of his life to prove points, who knows. He's obviously been associated with trading for at least 30-40 years at some big trading institutions. You think he worked in several Senior levels positions because he knew nothing and was a fraud?

Also, everyone references Peter Brandt as some beacon of truth in this industry. Brandt likes to advertise his 41.6% ROR. Originally he claimed this was an Audit and changed it to a "Letter of Attestation" once this website called him out. Peter Brandt has his own shenanigans as well...

https://thelonelytraderv2.wordpress.com/2017/10/24/peter-brandt-another-fake-trader/

Below is Tim Morge’s website from 2008:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080216004820/http://www.blackthornecapital.com:80/btnewindex.html

Unless Mr. Morge got 3 Phds in the last 10 years, he is completely making up his credentials, which is grounds for dismissal in ANY FIELD.

The Web Archive, aka The Wayback Machine was Tim Morge’s fatal mistake. What I would pay to see his face when he saw his OWN WRITTEN CONTENT, which he thought was long gone, and permanently deleted...

 

[Bam123]

I too have serious doubts about Tim But he has certainly spoke at MIT and you can find the link if you search for it and it will take you to MIT and announcement that he would be speaking there.

 

[ChipShotTrader]

I too have serious doubts about Tim But he has certainly spoke at MIT and you can find the link if you search for it and it will take you to MIT and announcement that he would be speaking there.

Dear Bam123,

In my extensive due diligence on Timothy Morge, I was able to track down the head of the small MIT student finance club, because he was mentioned in one of Morge’s DVDs. I attach the screen shot of my brief communication with this individual, and he wanted absolutely nothing to do with Morge or Market Geometry. Unfortunately, the way Mr. Morge has made it appear to all, is that his teaching of MIT students (and Stanford, he stated as well!) is ongoing, and teaching these MIT/Stanford grad students, shall we say, is part of his monthly duties/routine. As you can see from the link you mentioned, it was just a ONE TIME appearance at a tiny student club, which Morge parlayed into being part of the faculty at MIT. He has also stated that he has an actual faculty office at The University of Chicago, and also teaches at Stanford.

As a side note, the MIT student, Magnus, mentioned that Morge was there to sell Market Geometry subscriptions.

 

[ChipShotTrader]

I too have serious doubts about Tim But he has certainly spoke at MIT and you can find the link if you search for it and it will take you to MIT and announcement that he would be speaking there.

I firmly believe the final (and most important) question is the 3 Phds, and whether they truly exist. Repeating myself:

Below is Tim Morge’s website from 2008:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080216004820/http://www.blackthornecapital.com:80/btnewindex.html

Unless Mr. Morge got 3 Phds in the last 10 years, he is completely making up his credentials, which is grounds for dismissal in ANY FIELD. He would be fired from anywhere, on the spot.

The Web Archive, aka The Wayback Machine was Tim Morge’s fatal mistake. What I would pay to see his face when he saw his OWN WRITTEN CONTENT, which he thought was long gone, and permanently deleted...