He doesn't get it, lost in his theories and need to be right. The only truth here really is he may legitimately be losing his mental health being locked down.
The Herd, Vaccine and Natural Immunity Thread....
- Thread starter jem
- Start date
He doesn't get it, lost in his theories and need to be right. The only truth here really is he may legitimately be losing his mental health being locked down.
I was watching some kids doing some really poor graffiti scrawls, just messing up a painted wall and Jem came to mind. I have never had the urge to ruin things, possibly as my mom was an artist. But Jem really seems to relish spreading his anti-knowledge, damaging human collective intelligence is pleasurable for him (and a few others).
Meh, he will just make more threads with his little Jem (a child's name) straw men assertions on covid-19 and whatever else.
I don't know much about Canada but I'm very familiar with the NHS. While I usually do have upper to top level private cover, when I lived in the UK I did not bother. OK so you don't have as broad a choice of docs and appointments (postcode lottery) but not having any stress about co-pays and drug costs, walk in, walk out not signing anything is marvellously relaxing and ten times that of you have kids. Less can be more.
Socialised medicine is on the whole, far better for the majority.
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I'd estimate 95 percent of the articles in the last 3 days about Spain and its low antibody count implied or said... "therefore herd immunity is unlikely."
Yet, the scientists being quoted must be aware of our T cell response...
Not even mentioning them in the articles... really manifests the said state of affairs in our journalism today.
Killer T-cells can save us
Scientists are learning more about the antibody responses to the virus. Most people who are exposed to the virus and experience symptoms produce antibodies -- but there are now some indications that they may not last for long.
But it does not necessarily mean people can be reinfected. Memory B-cells, when encountering the same virus, can change into effector B-cells, producing the neutralizing antibodies needed to neutralize the virus. How long memory B-cells persist following exposure to coronavirus is currently unknown.
The last time Americans were asked to sacrifice daily life
It appears that successful clearance of the virus may lead to a pool of helper T-cells and killer T-cells that are ready to respond to future threats. In fact, the most recent evidence suggests that some people who are asymptomatically infected by the virus may only develop a T-cell response. So while these people might not have any antibodies, they may still be immune to the coronavirus.
The lack of an antibody response in some asymptomatic cases has profound implications for the current status of the pandemic in the US. Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated that only 6% of Americans have been infected by coronavirus. This is a long way from the 60-80% we need for herd immunity. But the CDC estimate was based solely on studies accounting for antibodies, and not those who have T-cells that may make them immune to the virus.
That means the CDC may be undercounting the total number of Americans who are immune to the virus. If these T-cell responses prove to be protective, it means that we may be closer to herd immunity than the 6% statistic suggests.
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That would be some good news in a terrible year.
Unravelling these immunological mysteries takes time. We are only six months into understanding how our body defends itself from this virus. The data is slowly emerging, and while there will be a continual refinement of our understanding of the immune processes that defend us, I am starting to see patterns in the data that give me hope that recovery from infection may lead to sustained protection from reinfection.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/opin...ccine-immunity-inoculation-bromage/index.html
Yet, the scientists being quoted must be aware of our T cell response...
Not even mentioning them in the articles... really manifests the said state of affairs in our journalism today.
Killer T-cells can save us
Scientists are learning more about the antibody responses to the virus. Most people who are exposed to the virus and experience symptoms produce antibodies -- but there are now some indications that they may not last for long.
But it does not necessarily mean people can be reinfected. Memory B-cells, when encountering the same virus, can change into effector B-cells, producing the neutralizing antibodies needed to neutralize the virus. How long memory B-cells persist following exposure to coronavirus is currently unknown.
The last time Americans were asked to sacrifice daily life
It appears that successful clearance of the virus may lead to a pool of helper T-cells and killer T-cells that are ready to respond to future threats. In fact, the most recent evidence suggests that some people who are asymptomatically infected by the virus may only develop a T-cell response. So while these people might not have any antibodies, they may still be immune to the coronavirus.
The lack of an antibody response in some asymptomatic cases has profound implications for the current status of the pandemic in the US. Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated that only 6% of Americans have been infected by coronavirus. This is a long way from the 60-80% we need for herd immunity. But the CDC estimate was based solely on studies accounting for antibodies, and not those who have T-cells that may make them immune to the virus.
That means the CDC may be undercounting the total number of Americans who are immune to the virus. If these T-cell responses prove to be protective, it means that we may be closer to herd immunity than the 6% statistic suggests.
Get our free weekly newsletter
That would be some good news in a terrible year.
Unravelling these immunological mysteries takes time. We are only six months into understanding how our body defends itself from this virus. The data is slowly emerging, and while there will be a continual refinement of our understanding of the immune processes that defend us, I am starting to see patterns in the data that give me hope that recovery from infection may lead to sustained protection from reinfection.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/opin...ccine-immunity-inoculation-bromage/index.html
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WHO Says Covid-19 Asymptomatic Transmission Is ‘Very Rare’
She clearly states that truly asymptomatic PCR positive cases are rare compared to those who have "mild disease" or are pre-symptomatic.
Understand it better now?
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I understand they have no idea how many people are truly asymptotic and they don't know with any real certainty at what level of symptoms does transmission of the virus become more likely than not. More guesswork and we're making very decisive and long lasting decisions based on that guesswork.
This thing you do with saying "they" don't know xyz when it is YOU beyond your depth is tiresome. That lady had a pretty clear idea of what she did and did not know.
I'm reminded of tales about illiterate people who develop little excuses about eyesight and whatnot to mask their problem.
When you don't understand, "they" come up.
Okay, if "they" know the answer at what point exactly do symptoms become the break point between risk of transmission and no risk of transmission? Is it the cough? The fever? The shortness of breath? How many days into the virus? What point exactly? If one or more symptoms are present does risk of transmission go up or stay the same? What about the person that is on the receiving end of transmission? How do we measure the strength of their immune system to fight off the virus? Is a person more likely to fight off the virus if it's being transmitted by a person with mild symptoms, or do the symptoms have to be more severe? How severe? Do "they" know any of that with certainty? If so no doubt you have a link?
What she said was actually genuinely asymptomatic PCR positive are rare and it seems through contact tracing results to date these people don't seem to be infectious.
People who have some symptoms but not (yet) classic covid-19 symptoms are a different matter.
So how do we get from that to she has not got a clue and its all fubar?
I have had to make actual life and death decisions (often my own) on partial information dozens of times. Why? Because when you lead, that is what you do corporal.
All of us make serious, sometimes life and death decisions based on partial information. Doing that as an individual where that decision impacts only you or a few people is one thing. Doing it where hundreds of millions are impacted, entire economies at risk, that should require a hell of alot more than a best guess. "They" made a best guess 4 months ago, it was wrong, very wrong based on very flawed models. Their conclusions as to what we should do for this or that still changes like the weather. It should come as no surprise that people are skeptical of what those same "experts" now say should be the next move. You call yourself a leader but yet are willing to be blindly obedient to these people who have monumental screw ups to answer for. Until that happens, people held to account for these totally fucked up models, we should all be very cautious when taking their advice.