Yeah, but really, there is no God. It just is. The whole idea of a God is absurd and very silly. Let's get a grip here.
The Fine Tuning of the Universe
- Thread starter FortuneTeller
- Start date
A Universe that fine tuned itself seems absurd and silly too. And whatever caused this (or any other Universe) doesn't have to be called "God". It can be called Bruce/Bob/Alice/Tree/Rock or whatever you want to call it. And it doesn't have to be a personal "God". It can be (if it's still around) completely impersonal.
Not at all silly.
An eternal universe of nothing by which one or many embryonic universes constantly and spontaneously come into existence (quantum fluctuation) and collapse again until one or many evolve with the parameters a universe needs to exist in this way or that.
The cause of a universe to start, form and evolve, (the creator) indeed not called by the name God or Allah or whatever, but called by its real name, Gravity.
Just like living organisms tune themselves to survive in and by their surroundings, so too the Universe. That way no need for any god or fine tuning by anything other than the prevailing environment and the Universe itself.
if the universe created the universe we would just call the universe God
to have an honest conversation on this subject with you stu, you need to stop (implicitly or explicitly) asserting science speculation is fact.
as you know Hawking wrote that gravity could create the universe you are in within the framework of his top down cosmology. (highly speculative idea not fact.)
Therefore the idea that gravity could create your universe is founded upong the idea of almost infinite universe branching off of each decsion point... to you get the one you are in. so in this speculation... there could almost infinite universes with too little and too much gravity and then there is one which just right. Gravity at this exact force in effect filtered out your universe.. hence your Creator in a backward way. We can argue semantics... but the reality is that the idea that Gravity as the Creator is highly speculative.
in fact the whole idea of infinite univeerse is a super speculative idea... another famous physicist Penrose who has co authored papers with Hawking... stated that M theory is not really even a scientific theory...its just a collection of ideas.
Now you can argue it is a theory... but you can not argue its a fact... as there is no proof of even one other universe or even one other space in our universe where the fundamental laws are different enough to qualify as an alternate.
as you know Hawking wrote that gravity could create the universe you are in within the framework of his top down cosmology. (highly speculative idea not fact.)
Therefore the idea that gravity could create your universe is founded upong the idea of almost infinite universe branching off of each decsion point... to you get the one you are in. so in this speculation... there could almost infinite universes with too little and too much gravity and then there is one which just right. Gravity at this exact force in effect filtered out your universe.. hence your Creator in a backward way. We can argue semantics... but the reality is that the idea that Gravity as the Creator is highly speculative.
in fact the whole idea of infinite univeerse is a super speculative idea... another famous physicist Penrose who has co authored papers with Hawking... stated that M theory is not really even a scientific theory...its just a collection of ideas.
Now you can argue it is a theory... but you can not argue its a fact... as there is no proof of even one other universe or even one other space in our universe where the fundamental laws are different enough to qualify as an alternate.
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The real question that haunts most of humanity is, does the self aware universe give a damn about it's creation? The atheist says no. The agnostic says maybe. The true believer says of course. Point is, without all the facts, we're all rolling the dice.
That is a haunting question, unless... we're not separate from the Universe.
no kidding, one side says the universe always existed and the other side says God always existed, so the compromise is the Universe is God.
(I think the proper term is pantheism)