The Fine Tuning of the Universe

nitro · May 31, 2015

loyek590 said:
it's not that we "care" what others think, it's just that we "enjoy" listening to what others think

I don't enjoy a single thing that I hear in church (although I love the music!). My family is religious. My brother goes to church every Sunday morning for the last 60 years. During Christmas, my daughter, whom I didn't once suggest to her while growing up that God does or does not exist, is so apathetic of going to church that we watch movies together while everyone goes to Christmas mass. We then meet again after mass to celebrate the family gathering. So you might enjoy it and I would fight to have you continue to have your right to do so. To me sitting there listening to that stuff is literally painful.

Time is the most precious thing on this Earth. It is the only resource that cannot be gotten back once it is gone. I choose how I spend my time wisely (or so I hope), and "enjoying listening to" what I consider nonsense is a total waste of my precious time.

loyek590 · May 31, 2015

nitro said:
I don't enjoy a single thing that I hear in church (although I love the music!). My family is religious. My brother goes to church every Sunday morning for the last 60 years. During Christmas, my daughter, whom I didn't once suggest to her while growing up that God does or does not exist, is so apathetic of going to church that we watch movies together while everyone goes to Christmas mass. We then meet again after mass to celebrate the family gathering. So you might enjoy it and I would fight to have you continue to have your right to do so. To me sitting there listening to that stuff is literally painful.

Time is the most precious thing on this Earth. It is the only resource that cannot be gotten back once it is gone. I choose how I spend my time wisely (or so I hope), and "enjoying listening to" what I consider nonsense is a total waste of my precious time.

typical catholic, man those guys and those nuns and those popes really messed you up.

we are not talking about mass or Christmas or religious holidays or religious anything.

we are talking about did the universe always exist or was it created? Get your head out of the vatican sewer.

loyek590 · May 31, 2015

and if 97% of all scientists ever agree, there is going to be hell to pay

loyek590 · May 31, 2015

loyek590 said:
and if 97% of all scientists ever agree it was created there is going to be hell to pay

so for those of us that are truth seekers, the climate change debate and the god debate seem very similar. The debate isn't really about the science, the debate is about the implications.

nitro · May 31, 2015

The reason that existence and initial cause is so hard is that it cannot be resolved (or so it appears) without infinite regress. Even if God appeared to every scientist on Earth and it was clear that it was God, it wouldn't help. We would still have the problem of how God came to be. If then God sat down and had a conversation with scientists, I am certain that conversation would involve logic, mathematics, physics, etc, and most exciting, things we had not thought of yet. When asked how he came to be, I am 100% certain the answer would not be "I have always been", but more along the lines of a possible scientific theory.

No matter what, unless the details were laid out, if it didn't make sense, we would dismiss God's answer, EVEN IF WE KNEW HE WAS GOD AND HAD CREATED THIS UNIVERSE! In fact, we would use the data point that God existed as another useful scientific jumping off point in our search for the truth!

loyek590 · May 31, 2015

nitro said:
The reason that existence and initial cause is so hard is that it cannot be resolved (or so it appears) without infinite regress. Even if God appeared to every scientist on Earth and it was clear that it was God, it wouldn't help. We would still have the problem of how God came to be. If then God sat down and had a conversation with scientists, I am certain that conversation would involve logic, mathematics, physics, etc, and most exciting, things we had not thought of yet. When asked how he came to be, I am 100% certain the answer would not be "I have always been", but more along the lines of a possible scientific theory.

No matter what, unless the details were laid out, if it didn't make sense, we would dismiss God's answer, EVEN IF WE KNEW HE WAS GOD AND HAD CREATED THIS UNIVERSE! In fact, we would use the data point that God existed as another useful scientific jumping off point in our search for the truth!

now that's what I am talking about!

glad to see you have joined our side

loyek590 · May 31, 2015

nitro said:
The reason that existence and initial cause is so hard is that it cannot be resolved (or so it appears) without infinite regress. Even if God appeared to every scientist on Earth and it was clear that it was God, it wouldn't help. We would still have the problem of how God came to be. If then God sat down and had a conversation with scientists, I am certain that conversation would involve logic, mathematics, physics, etc, and most exciting, things we had not thought of yet. When asked how he came to be, I am 100% certain the answer would not be "I have always been", but more along the lines of a possible scientific theory.

No matter what, unless the details were laid out, if it didn't make sense, we would dismiss God's answer, EVEN IF WE KNEW HE WAS GOD AND HAD CREATED THIS UNIVERSE! In fact, we would use the data point that God existed as another useful scientific jumping off point in our search for the truth!

it is kind of silly isn't it? We finally get to sit face to face with God and ask him, "How did you create the universe?" And he says, "I didn't create nothing, it already existed when I came on the scene."

jem · May 31, 2015

the funny thing is the non believers are trying to take us off on tangents. ...
the point of the video and basically the point for those who understand how finely tuned the standard model of physics is...

is that scientists... studying the universe now realize that if there is only one universe there is almost had to be a Creator.

that is the point... we have evidence of a Creator...or alternatively you can take up faith in in unseen untested almost infinite other universes or some future explanation that explains why the universe had to be this way.. (which may still point to a Creator by the way).

So the table is now flipped by science --- we have evidence of a Creator... or to deny that takes faith. (in unseen almost infinite universes.)

Just understand what that video is saying at about 1 minute 20 seconds in talking about the gravitational constant....

That is not a lie... that is massively important and it is the state of science right now. The fine tuning was pretty much incredibly confirmed when they found the higgs boson and CERN.

loyek590 · May 31, 2015

loyek590 said:
it is kind of silly isn't it? We finally get to sit face to face with God and ask him, "How did you create the universe?" And he says, "I didn't create nothing, it already existed when I came on the scene."

and I don't fault anybody if they find some comfort in their religion, and isn't it a comforting religion to just believe the universe has always existed?

loyek590 · May 31, 2015

loyek590 said:
and I don't fault anybody if they find some comfort in their religion, and isn't it a comforting religion to just believe the universe has always existed?

so I'm cool with whatever gives you the most comfort, whether it has always existed or God created it