The bitter truth about Patak Trading

I just sent gmst my cell number and he is free to contact me. I told him I would give him my entire professional life on the web. Not something I like to do every day.

Here is the thing about me. Yeah this is a message board and technically there are no rules. But I live my own life by my own set of rules and my own standard. There is a certain level of integrity I adhere to. A set of principles if you will. I have always since I have been on ET for over 10 year, always been willing to back up my talk. I've always kept an open door policy. I'll meet anyone in person or talk to anyone over the phone. I have never had anything to hide and I have never hid behind my alias. I'm not interested in personal attacks up here or chest pounding. And while I may be abrasive to some down in P&R, up here in the trading boards I back up everything that comes out of my mouth. My personal references run pretty deep. So gmst, you have my contact info. It's your call now.
 
I confirm Mav did send his cell number to me. I would love to be proven wrong about Mav's association with TST.

However, my initial points still stand that TST is not being completely honest about their true motive.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Here is the latest guy that got backed today. You can take a look at his combine numbers.

http://www.topsteptrader.com/fundedtradereport
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So, in his custom combine, he got exemption from these 2 points. Since from the link his av. win is < his av loss and his av win duration < his average loss duration.

1) Overall Average Win greater than Overall Average Loss
2) Overall Average Win Duration greater than Overall Average Loss Duration


With custom relaxed criteria, chances of completing combines successfully and staying as a trader becomes marginally better, but I would say improvement in probability of success is not more than 5%-7%.

This guy achieved a PF of 3.37. Precisely my point. He did it over this 10 day period. But will he be able to maintain such PF over every 10 trading days going forward. Because point # 10 in PDF clearly mentions that he should maintain performance criteria as a live trader. And as soon as he doesn't maintain his performance objectives going forward, lets say he clicks 2.8 PF but goes below 50% positive days, he will be sent back to combine.

Does it make any sense whatsoever, to send a guy back to combine if he has arguably achieved say a PF of 2.8, if the idea is to give that guy access to funding capital? In my book, it doesn't. That is why I claim that TST is not all clean as it is trying to come out.
 
Quote from gmst:

I confirm Mav did send his cell number to me. I would love to be proven wrong about Mav's association with TST.

However, my initial points still stand that TST is not being completely honest about their true motive.
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I have told Mav that I won't be able to call him as currently I am out of mainland. I have asked him if he can send over his NFA ID and his name over PM or over email? I would love to verify from the NFA site and the link that he sends me that he has no association with TST. Once I verify it, I will apologize to him for implying that he is the promoter behind TST.

Mav, waiting for your answer.
 
Quote from gmst:

So, in his custom combine, he got exemption from these 2 points. Since from the link his av. win is < his av loss and his av win duration < his average loss duration.

1) Overall Average Win greater than Overall Average Loss
2) Overall Average Win Duration greater than Overall Average Loss Duration


With custom relaxed criteria, chances of completing combines successfully and staying as a trader becomes marginally better, but I would say improvement in probability of success is not more than 5%-7%.

This guy achieved a PF of 3.37. Precisely my point. He did it over this 10 day period. But will he be able to maintain such PF over every 10 trading days going forward. Because point # 10 in PDF clearly mentions that he should maintain performance criteria as a live trader. And as soon as he doesn't maintain his performance objectives going forward, lets say he clicks 2.8 PF but goes below 50% positive days, he will be sent back to combine.

Does it make any sense whatsoever, to send a guy back to combine if he has arguably achieved say a PF of 2.8, if the idea is to give that guy access to funding capital? In my book, it doesn't. That is why I claim that TST is not all clean as it is trying to come out.
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Gmst, you are incorrect about this. You do NOT have any metrics that you have to maintain once you go live other then not violating the max daily loss requirement. I know guys there that are live and some aren't even profitable lately and they are still live. You do not have to duplicate what you did on the combine. I want to make this very clear.

Furthermore, there is no economic incentive for them to send you back to the combine since they are no longer charging you for the combine at that point.
 
Quote from gmst:

I have told Mav that I won't be able to call him as currently I am out of mainland. I have asked him if he can send over his NFA ID and his name over PM or over email? I would love to verify from the NFA site and the link that he sends me that he has no association with TST. Once I verify it, I will apologize to him for implying that he is the promoter behind TST.

Mav, waiting for your answer.
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Gmst, because people hide behind their aliases on ET I only ask that if I'm going to put my personal info out there, then I have to know who I'm giving it to. I will not simply send you all my personal info to an anonymous alias. It's quid pro quo. You have to call me. We have to speak to each other like gentleman. Once you call me, I'll give you all the info you need.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Gmst, you are incorrect about this. You do NOT have any metrics that you have to maintain once you go live other then not violating the max daily loss requirement. I know guys there that are live and some aren't even profitable lately and they are still live. You do not have to duplicate what you did on the combine. I want to make this very clear.

Furthermore, there is no economic incentive for them to send you back to the combine since they are no longer charging you for the combine at that point.
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http://www.topsteptrader.com/fundedtrader

Last line, PDF opens clicking on trading plan. Please check the point #10 in the PDF. It states

10. Continue to adhere to the Combine performance requirements.

If this is is not true, then it will make my case against them a bit weaker. But it is written in their agreement which is available on their website currently. I have no reasons not to believe it. Correct Mav.

Also, can you please point me to where they write that once a trader moves back to combine from live trading, he won't have to pay for combine?
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Gmst, because people hide behind their aliases on ET I only ask that if I'm going to put my personal info out there, then I have to know who I'm giving it to. I will not simply send you all my personal info to an anonymous alias. It's quid pro quo. You have to call me. We have to speak to each other like gentleman. Once you call me, I'll give you all the info you need.
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Fair enough. I can't call you - its just a bit hard for me. You first offered that you can PM me your name and NFA ID. But in any case, I won't accuse you of backing off.

The big question is not whether you are associated with TST or not. Rather the big question is if what TST claims is correct or are they engaging in mis-representing to a large degree. My research, logic and numbers indicate that their real intention is very different from their stated intention.

So, lets not make the exchange here GMST vs Maverick. Lets just correct me, if I am wrong and refute my logic and numbers. That would make for a gentlemen's conversation.
 
Quote from gmst:

Fair enough. I can't call you - its just a bit hard for me. You first offered that you can PM me your name and NFA ID. But in any case, I won't accuse you of backing off.

The big question is not whether you are associated with TST or not. Rather the big question is if what TST claims is correct or are they engaging in mis-representing to a large degree. My research, logic and numbers indicate that their real intention is very different from their stated intention.

So, lets not make the exchange here GMST vs Maverick. Lets just correct me, if I am wrong and refute my logic and numbers. That would make for a gentlemen's conversation.
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Just to clarify so it doesn't look like I'm "backing off", yes I will PM you all the details. I just want you to call me first. I want to know who I'm giving out my personal info to. I've had people call me on skype from 5 different countries. So unless you are on the moon, you can call me.

I'll tell you what, I'm currently on vacation at the moment. But do me this favor, in as short a post as possible, list the bullet points you want to discuss or the parts you believe are fraudulent. I'll address each of them line by line sometime over the next few days. Probably tomorrow. Please be as brief as possible and to the point.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Just to clarify so it doesn't look like I'm "backing off", yes I will PM you all the details. I just want you to call me first. I want to know who I'm giving out my personal info to. I've had people call me on skype from 5 different countries. So unless you are on the moon, you can call me.

I'll tell you what, I'm currently on vacation at the moment. But do me this favor, in as short a post as possible, list the bullet points you want to discuss or the parts you believe are fraudulent. I'll address each of them line by line sometime over the next few days. Probably tomorrow. Please be as brief as possible and to the point.
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Forget about NFA ID thing etc. You had originally made that offer. I have no interest in pursuing that. Maybe if we meet in Chicago in person, you can give me your details then.

I have already mentioned my problems with TST in my first 4 posts on this thread.
 
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