The bitter truth about Patak Trading

Quote from baggerlord:

Wow. Mav is one of the only people on this site that gives good advice. This coming from a moderator is a new low on ET.
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Hey Baggerlord, I have read your earlier posts and you are a reasonable poster, I know. Looking at the way Maverick has been promoting Patak on "Patak Trading" thread, my original hunch was that Maverick is associated with TST. But he then came and said he is in no way associated with TST. And it can be verified looking at his NFA ID. Let us assume he is speaking truth and is in no way associated with TST. Let us move forward.

Lets keep the thread on point. No more Maverick please. Please give your honest opinion about TST. Punch holes in my logic and numbers. That will really add value. Rather than attacking and defending Maverick. Cheers.
 
Quote from gmst:

Hey Baggerlord, I have read your earlier posts and you are a reasonable poster, I know. Looking at the way Maverick has been promoting Patak on "Patak Trading" thread, my original hunch was that Maverick is associated with TST. But he then came and said he is in no way associated with TST. And it can be verified looking at his NFA ID. Let us assume he is speaking truth and is in no way associated with TST. Let us move forward.

Lets keep the thread on point. No more Maverick please. Please give your honest opinion about TST. Punch holes in my logic and numbers. That will really add value. Rather than attacking and defending Maverick. Cheers.
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Quote from your 1st post:

"It saddens me to see that Maverick is out there to fool people since following his ACD thread, I used to think Maverick is a very good trader and I had very high regards for him. Today also, I don't have anything personal against Maverick - as I think he is just trying to make a quick buck by fooling people (most sellers of trading services do this and buyer beware is an oft-repeated proverb). But, now I seriously wonder how much money Maverick makes from his trading alone?!! Because if he is making 7 figures from his trading, he will never allow himself to do such a dishonorable thing by being part of such a group which is out there to outright fool people."

If your only issue was Patak, you should have stuck to that. That would have been clean and clear.
 
I say that because he has personally helped my trading and now my investing a great deal. To see a mod make a comment like that just was a suprise and very disrespectful to one of the only people that puts quality content on this site.

Regarding Patek, I haven't looked that close as daytrading isn't something my work schedule allows. But I have done one of the pay for "training" fake prop deals in the past. I went into it knowing what I was getting. I lost less money paying for "training" than I had been losing trading my own account. The restrictive rules forced me to be a better trader. I went back to my own account in a few months and that was the turning point for me and from then on I have been profitable both at daytrading and longer term stuff.

This deal sounds better to me. It costs less than a couple books.

Expecting any more would be unreasonable for an unproven trader and would guarantee losses for the firm.
 
I'm in agreement here. Mav's name has been good here for a long time amongst the charlatans and hucksters, so the personal attack was unwarranted.

As far as Patak, it is a call option, nothing more. What's wrong with that? The fact that they are going to make commission off of you? So what? Here's a news flash-- somebody somewhere will ALWAYS make commission off of you.

Is their commission schedule outlandish? Not that I can tell. Is their program hard? Yes it looks damn near impossible.

However, smart traders can take advantage of this system because the rules are clearly defined. Pigeon hole your trading to maintain their risk parameters, and receive cash to trade. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

In fact, in my emerging manager program we don't define the rules for this very reason, because we don't want traders looking to game the system. So you either have to have pretty stringent rules to manage your risk, or undefined rules to let traders "self select". I prefer to allow traders to be themselves, but I can tell you that far fewer traders receive backing than the number at Patak.

In short, not every profitable trader deserves to be backed! So people will call it a scam because either it's not the right fit or because they aren't good enough. The problem is that the naysayers want to become portfolio managers based on a few demo trades! This program is not for everyone and those who can't should move on.



Quote from Maverick74:

Btw, you can do a free 10 day combine no charge with TST and yes, I agree with you, one should give that a whirl first and see if they can even trade. Look, I don't know who on here is telling guys who can't trade to do this. If you are accusing me of that maybe you should re-read this thread. I don't believe in a nanny state and people are free to make their own choices. But thanks for stopping by and telling people what they should or should not do. I always appreciate that.

I honest to God am shocked by the animosity towards this firm. I mean, I don't get it. People on ET love to attack Bright Trading. Love to attack IB. Love to attack prop trading in general. Love to attack vendors. Anyone selling education. And then they attack a firm like TST. I mean, seriously guys. Why are you even on this site. Why even trade? You might hurt yourself.

I truly believe a majority of people on ET would probably be better served working for the federal government with all the dire warnings this site gives. How about this mr. moderator. Why don't you let people make their own choices. I'm sure most people will make bad choices but at least it will be theirs, not yours. Let people own their mistakes. That's the only way they will be able to go about fixing them.

Maybe instead of trading they can become an ET moderator like you. Oh wait, that doesn't pay anything does it? What the hell, let these kids give trading a shot. No harm no foul.
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Mav,

Why do you use "we" and "our" in the post below?


Quote from Maverick74:

Here is a response to one of your questions:

There have been claims that no reputable firm or equity partner would back a trader based on simulated trading and believe this recruitment method is a scam. We evaluate traders for four weeks, pending their performance they may be hired as a live trader. The Combine has a $1,000 daily loss because we want recruits to learn, figure out the system and then go live. Our live traders start our with a $500 daily loss limit. Once they prove they can remain profitable, the loss limit is increased. Tight risk parameters are in place to ensure that the trader continues to be successful and will be with our firm or with a TopstepTrader equity partner for the long term. If a live trader is struggling while trading thier live account, the trader is not “let go” or fired, we simply send them back to the simulation for a week (at no cost to the trader), giving them the opportunity to reevaluate and readjust their strategy. Once the trader successfully trades in the simulation they are then able to trade their live account again.
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Quote from hilojack:


As far as Patak, it is a call option, nothing more. What's wrong with that? The fact that they are going to make commission off of you? So what? Here's a news flash-- somebody somewhere will ALWAYS make commission off of you.
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Dude, that is the point. If they are true prop backers who are only interested in discovering and developing GREAT trading talent and sharing a PL split, they should pass the lowest possible commissions to the traders. They claim they are helping traders by making them do combines, by making them follow hard risk management, but they want to charge 63 cents per side extra commissions. Any professional trader would know this crap, immediately. Only newbies and vendors like you (you wrote you also run an emerging managers program - I don't know anythign about your program, but I do know that you are also in the same boat as Patak now) will say commissions don't matter.

If this fact that they are keeping like 63 cents per contract doesn't help potential Patak recruits understand that they are not interested in making their traders successful, I can't really help them.
 
Quote from Laissez Faire:

Because he is quoting the TST webpage?

Jesus.
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Yes, Mav is quoting it from some place on TST website. Mav, can you send the link where you are quoting this from ?

Mav or someone else needs to clarify about the point #10 in the PDF. That is clearly at odds with this statement. And that PDF is available on TST Website currently. Which one do we assume to be correct?
 
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