Temp Halt gets overturned?

The claim, eg by stu, that a would-be immigrant outside the US can raise constitutional claims to the president's decision
That's not the claim. I would have thought you understood this matter more than you seem to.
Washington state attorney general is not a would be immigrant outside the US. Making up alternative facts that way doesn't dignify your argument.

It will be struck down tonight or it will stand. Either way the Court decides at this stage whether the US District Judge has the authority to even issue the temporary restraint, or whether Trump's order is even legal.
Trump doesn't , you don't, the Court Constitutionally has that power. That's the whole point.
 
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with regard to Robart's decision this past Friday this may be of interest to some: I underlined a small part that relates specifically to this Forum and thread. The entire commentary will be of interest to many of you, but I only excerpt here a small portion'

From Mark Joseph Stern's article appearing here: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._judge_robart_blocked_trump_s_muslim_ban.html
...
[Robart's] questioning was calm but vigorous and persistent. He asked Washington State Solicitor General Noah Purcell how the executive order could discriminate against Muslims when, on its face, it makes no mention of a particular religion. But he also asked Justice Department attorney Michelle Bennett how the order was rationally related to its stated goals. How many citizens of the seven Muslim-majority countries targeted by the ban, he asked Bennett, had been arrested on domestic terrorism charges since 9/11? She said she didn’t know—but he did. The answer, he said, was zero.


“You’re here arguing on behalf of someone who says we have to protect the U.S. from these individuals coming from these countries,” Robart said, “and there’s no support for that.”


When Robart issued his ruling, he took care to reiterate his commitment to both judicial restraint and independence. “Fundamental to the work of this court is a vigilant recognition that it is but one of three equal branches of our federal government,” he wrote.


The work of the court is not to create policy or judge the Wisdom of any particular policy promoted by the other two branches. That is the work of the legislative and executive branches and of the citizens of this country who ultimately exercise democratic control over those branches. The work of the Judiciary, and this court, is limited to ensuring that the actions taken by the other two branches comport with our country’s laws, and more importantly, our Constitution. …
[T]he court is mindful of the considerable impact its order may have on the parties before it, the executive branch of our government, and the country’s citizens and residents. The court concludes that the circumstances brought before it today are such that it must intervene to fulfill its constitutional role in our tripart government.
...
Most other judges to consider the ban so far have found that it violates the due-process rights of immigrants already in the United States and those who were on their way into the country when the order was signed. Robart went far beyond that rather narrow question of law, finding that the entire order is likely unconstitutional, presumably because it is irrational and motivated by unlawful anti-Muslim animus.

...

 
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But he also asked Justice Department attorney Michelle Bennett how the order was rationally related to its stated goals. How many citizens of the seven Muslim-majority countries targeted by the ban, he asked Bennett, had been arrested on domestic terrorism charges since 9/11? She said she didn’t know—but he did. The answer, he said, was zero.

This was one of his fundamental mistakes. He applied a test that is common for administrative rule-making. The president has unfettered discretion to bar immigrants or a class of immigrants. He doesn't have to wait for them to set off a nuke to do so, not does he have to satisfy a freakin' district court judge with delusions of grandeur that his order is good policy.
 
Washington state attorney general is not a would be immigrant outside the US. Making up alternative facts that way doesn't dignify your argument

Their whole claim to have standing is that they are acting as parens patria for people who are overseas. I will grant that aspects of this are a bit complex. My understanding is the administration dropped any action for people already here.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_curve

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While some argue they are getting less activist... they are still the ninth circuit.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielf...nth-circuit-immigration-hearing/#8c56c004728a

Trump administration lawyers are likely to cite the Ninth Circuit's own decisions -- including one denying special rights to non-citizens based on alleged religious discrimination -- as they argue to lift a federal judge's temporary restraining order blocking the President's executive order banning most travelers from seven Muslim-majority nations.

The California appeals court has scheduled a telephone hearing for 6 p.m. Eastern today. At it, lawyers representing 17 states and the District of Columbia will try to convince a panel on the Ninth Circuit to leave the TRO in place because lifting it will "resurrect the chaos" caused by the travel ban and harm their universities and medical centers by preventing students and employees from entering the country. They also argue they have an interest in preventing violations of Establishment Clause prohibitions against religious discrimination.


There's a big problem with those arguments that can be summed up with two words: Rational basis. The Ninth Circuit itself ruled in a 2012 decision, Ruiz-Diaz v. U.S., that courts must "defer to the political branches in the immigration field" and that the proper standard of review for constitutional complaints like the ones the states make is extremely loose. Under rational basis review, virtually any justification suffices, compared with strict scrutiny, where the government must show it can't accomplish its goals in any less onerous way. The appeals court also rejected the due-process claims of the plaintiffs in that case, who said their religious visas were unfairly being singled out for tighter review because of the government's concerns about potential fraud. The court said the plaintiffs had no “legitimate claim of entitlement” to speedier review of their visas.


Adding to the difficulties for the states is Kerry v. Din, a 2015 Supreme Court decision that reversed the Ninth Circuit on whether a former member of the Taliban was entitled to judicial review of the denial of his visa to join his spouse in the U.S. Din, a U.S. citizen, argued her constitutional rights were violated by the denial of her husband's visa. "There is no such constitutional right," the court concluded, in a 5-4 decision penned by Justice Antonin Scalia.

Most of the government's best arguments are laid out by U.S. District Judge Nathaniel M. Gorton in Massachusetts, who refused to extend a similar injunction by another judge in a Feb. 3 order. In that ruling, Gorton noted that the Trump administration excluded lawful permanent residents from the executive order on Feb. 1, mooting the claims of the primary plaintiffs in the Massachusetts case. Furthermore, the judge wrote, "here is a distinction ...between the constitutional rights enjoyed by aliens who have entered the United States and those who are outside of it.”

Deciding who gets to enter the country is a “fundamental sovereign attribute” left to the executive and legislative branches, he wrote, one that is “largely immune from judicial control.”

“There is no constitutionally protected interest in either obtaining or continuing to possess a visa,” the judge continued, citing a Supreme Court decision saying aliens outside the U.S. have no right of judicial review of a visa denial. Even if resident aliens have their visas revoked, the judge wrote, they don't have a due-process argument unless the government also seeks to deport them. Then they have a constitutional right to notice and a hearing where they can present their case.
 
https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ see under live streaming at this site. Probably CNN will also carry the arguments, which I understand will be via telephonic communication, as we said back in the watergate era. The hearing is scheduled for 3 pm pacific time, 6 pm Eastern.
 
The legal issues are straight forward. The plaintiffs lack standing, the criteria for a TRO are not remotely met and the president had clear authority to issue the orders.

That is not to predict what kind of decision will come from the loony Ninth Circuit. As with the dimwit district court judge, politics and virtue signaling are more important than the law.

I believe all that is before the appellate court is the TRO. Traditionally, higher courts give rather wide discretion to district court judges in such matters, so getting one overturned is a big ask.
 


The judges fed him a few softballs and he droned on without really nailing the questions til about 17 minutes in.

At about 17 minutes the judge was trying to make his argument for him.. this guy was out of his league.

I have seen far better moot courts. and the two days I have been in appellate court every attorney, all morning, was better. I would say this guy was less than average for typically law an motion arguments. You can tell he did not write the brief or else it was a terrible brief.
He did not really understand the issues. it was all too "fast moving".
 
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