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Quote from TM_Direct:





.....Optional.....You and I tend to have friendly, like minded discussions about a variety of subjects....But if you ever invoke the name Christian laetner agina in an argument to prove your point Im going to have to put you on ignore ok ?:D :D
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hahahahahahaha...EL MUERTO.....:D
 
the bottom-line again is...........................if kobe is injury free throughout his career, he will surpass mj's ''greatness''


(ps... shaq isnt great, just dominant)

(pss... i love the grizzles, my 2nd favorite, i was hoping and praying we would get them but memphis snatched them up..... and i would love to see kobe play there, that would be sweet)
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:



Kobe has the luxury of Shaq.

Let me ask any Kobe fan the following question:

If Shaq calls it quits, would Phil Jackson continue to coach with just Kobe?

No fucking way.

The only reason Jackson continues is he knows Shaq is the meal ticket. Kobe is just icing, not the cake.
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Are you ok???? You are taking too personally!! Cursing over Kobe vs MJ???? Lighten up optional....It's just hoops and fun debate....and as i have been saying for some time now...The most ridiculous thing in all of sports is the fact that SHAQ is not the League MVP for the past 6 years....basically , whatever team he is on will win it all or come pretty damn close....weren't you the one pushing KG for MVP? remember t-mac for MVP? amend Duncan get's it again? if they get swept out by LA he should have to return it.....but I must ask again: How many titles did MJ win with Dave Corzine at center? Pippen made the all tiem top 50,,,,Grant was the best all around power forward of the 90's....even Cartwright was a competent scorer.....then they brought in Harper and Rodman( the best rebounding and defensive Power forward in the league)....he did not play with scrubs
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:


Did you catch Kobe's act after the last win with Minnesota? What an ego trip that kid is on.
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Dude, you read too much into post-game interviews. He had just personally disposed of Minnesota - obviously, with a lot of help, but from the big DUNK to the 2nd half streaks he put up, it was clear that there was no one else on either team who was on like he was. As Dominique pointed out on TNT, once you saw Kobe getting hot, you knew Minnesota didn't have a chance (I would have said much of a chance, but I'm more conservative). What Kobe said about "putting the ball in the hole anytime he wanted to" was just a bit of euphoria after having re-gained his confidence, coming off his shoulder injury. If he hadn't actually just "put the ball in the hole anytime he wanted to" over and over again, he would have said something less exuberant.

MJ still is clearly the cosmos-sovereign, but Kobe is the major game-turner out there right now - the closest thing the league has to a guy (like MJ, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, and not many others were) who can will his team to win, and make everyone else look like they might as well take a seat.
 
Quote from TM_Direct:



Are you ok???? You are taking too personally!! Cursing over Kobe vs MJ???? Lighten up optional....It's just hoops and fun debate....and as i have been saying for some time now...The most ridiculous thing in all of sports is the fact that SHAQ is not the League MVP for the past 6 years....basically , whatever team he is on will win it all or come pretty damn close....weren't you the one pushing KG for MVP? remember t-mac for MVP? amend Duncan get's it again? if they get swept out by LA he should have to return it.....but I must ask again: How many titles did MJ win with Dave Corzine at center? Pippen made the all tiem top 50,,,,Grant was the best all around power forward of the 90's....even Cartwright was a competent scorer.....then they brought in Harper and Rodman( the best rebounding and defensive Power forward in the league)....he did not play with scrubs
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I was strong on both Duncan and Garnett for MVP, and the way Duncan finished, compared with the weak finish for Garnett sealed the voting.

My comments can be found on the topic in the MJ the greatest ever thread....here is a snippet:

OPTIONAL777
Elite Member

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2104


02-22-03 11:59 AM
Re: Re: Re: Kobe

TMAC has weakness in his game, he is a George Gervin or Dominique Wilkins type.

Shaq is not the best player any more, not unless he is healthy and motivated.

I will still take Duncan to build a team around right now. Take Duncan and plug in Jason Kidd, you have a championship team.

Jury is out on whether or not Shaq Daddy returns next year. He is not healing properly, he is fat, and offseason he gets fatter, putting pressure on his foot. He needs a year or more off from the game. I think if they win 4th, and Jackson retires, Shaq is done....

Then we will see what Kobe really is all about, won't we? Kobe's got 3 championships with Shaq, we will see how many he gets without the big fella.

Probably the best way to imagine who is the best player, is to imagine a team and swap players.

Would the Lakers have won their 3 with MJ and not Kobe? Would the bulls have won with Kobe and not MJ?

Would the Celtics have won with Wilt and not Russell?

Would the Celtics have won with Magic, and the Lakers with Bird?

Interesting questions to while away the hours between trades.


Best player in the game? Number 2 in scoring and turnovers?

No freaking way he is the best player in the game.

Check the stats, Garnett and Duncan are both superior on the whole to Kobe, who is mostly one dimensional.
 
Quote from TM_Direct:



How many titles did MJ win with Dave Corzine at center? Pippen made the all tiem top 50,,,,Grant was the best all around power forward of the 90's....even Cartwright was a competent scorer.....then they brought in Harper and Rodman( the best rebounding and defensive Power forward in the league)....he did not play with scrubs
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here's one for you guys...................

jordan had a better surrounding cast with him compared to the rest of the league than kobe has with him compared to the rest of the league.

(meaning .... if you took jordan off the bulls team they would still been able to be a winning team in the league back then.
but take kobe off the lakers right now and they may not be a winning team in this league, even with shaq)
 
Quote from KymarFye:



Dude, you read too much into post-game interviews. He had just personally disposed of Minnesota - obviously, with a lot of help, but from the big DUNK to the 2nd half streaks he put up, it was clear that there was no one else on either team who was on like he was. As Dominique pointed out on TNT, once you saw Kobe getting hot, you knew Minnesota didn't have a chance (I would have said much of a chance, but I'm more conservative). What Kobe said about "putting the ball in the hole anytime he wanted to" was just a bit of euphoria after having re-gained his confidence, coming off his shoulder injury. If he hadn't actually just "put the ball in the hole anytime he wanted to" over and over again, he would have said something less exuberant.

MJ still is clearly the cosmos-sovereign, but Kobe is the major game-turner out there right now - the closest thing the league has to a guy (like MJ, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, and not many others were) who can will his team to win, and make everyone else look like they might as well take a seat.
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When he plays a full season without Shaq Daddy, we will see how strong his will really is.

I am still of the belief that without Shaq to protect him, like the thugs in hockery protect superstars, that Kobe would get hacked to death driving down the lane, and his body is fragile.

By my reading, Kobe finished a distant third in the minds of the voters....
2002-03 MOST VALUABLE PLAYER AWARD VOTING RESULTS

Player, Team 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts
Tim Duncan, San Antonio 60 38 18 2 0 962
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota 43 49 17 3 4 871
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 8 13 41 35 15 496
Tracy McGrady, Orlando 4 12 30 46 15 427
Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers 3 4 3 13 14 126
Allen Iverson, Philadelphia 0 2 3 9 27 83
Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas 0 1 2 2 20 43
Ben Wallace, Detroit 1 0 2 2 7 33
Jason Kidd, New Jersey 0 0 2 3 12 31
Chris Webber, Sacramento 0 0 1 4 2 19
Jamal Mashburn, New Orleans 0 0 0 0 1 1
Steve Nash, Dallas 0 0 0 0 1 1
Paul Pierce, Boston 0 0 0 0 1 1


Along with his two MVP Awards, Duncan has also collected the 1997-98 Rookie of the Year, the 1999 NBA Finals Most Valuable Player, the co-MVP of the 2000 NBA All-Star Game and the 2001-02 NBA IBM Award during his six-year pro career.

How many years has Kobe been in the league now?

 
Check the stats, Garnett and Duncan are both superior on the whole to Kobe, who is mostly one dimensional.


....How many All D teams has Kobe made? 2-3?
 
Quote from KymarFye:



Dude, you read too much into post-game interviews. He had just personally disposed of Minnesota - obviously, with a lot of help, but from the big DUNK to the 2nd half streaks he put up, it was clear that there was no one else on either team who was on like he was. As Dominique pointed out on TNT, once you saw Kobe getting hot, you knew Minnesota didn't have a chance (I would have said much of a chance, but I'm more conservative). What Kobe said about "putting the ball in the hole anytime he wanted to" was just a bit of euphoria after having re-gained his confidence, coming off his shoulder injury. If he hadn't actually just "put the ball in the hole anytime he wanted to" over and over again, he would have said something less exuberant.

MJ still is clearly the cosmos-sovereign, but Kobe is the major game-turner out there right now - the closest thing the league has to a guy (like MJ, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, and not many others were) who can will his team to win, and make everyone else look like they might as well take a seat.
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Does Shaq know that Kobe "personally" disposed of the Wolves?
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:



Does Shaq know that Kobe "personally" disposed of the Wolves?
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Yes. Shaq opened the trash can, Kobe stuffed 'em in (personally disposing of them). That's what Shaq told me last night at the club. I said, "Shaq, you're being too modest," but he gave me one of those Shaq looks so we changed the subject.
 
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