Socialism just doesn't work, ever

[achilles28]

Quote from bigdavediode:



As you can read in the article below, that common knowledge is false, by the way. And yes, I know a lot of people in Canada think that's true.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/reprint/17/1/225.pdf

As a dual US-Canadian Citizen that lives 90% in Canada, you're wrong.

The Rich go to private clinics or overseas (US or Asia). The wait times for complicated surgeries can be huge.

Metropoltian Doctors are burdened by Immigrants who abuse the system. Grand-daddy got a head-ache? Call the ambulance. They got the sniffles? Go to Emergency. Little Junior stubbed his toe? Go to the Doctors. Hey, why not?! Its Free, RIGHT?!?!

Any Metro clinic is filled with immigants. And its not of the white, Judeo-Christian-European-type who descend from frugal austerity. Its the Browns and Asians who give two-shits about their New Country and a sense of entitlement that puts you Socialists' to shame.

Thats what Lefties don't get.

Social Nets get ABUSED.

We've got Newfoundlanders that milk welfare. They'll turn down full-time work for 5 months in a "seasonal" industry then collect welfare the rest of the year (7 months)!

The French get huge Government kick-backs, tax breaks, etc etc. The Newfies were all on the dole after the Fisheries got shut down. Poor them. They might have to get a job!

Indians are renowned scammers, milk welfare huge and chain immigrate their extended families.

And then people wonder why they pay so much tax and the country produces so little?


Socialism is a short-term solution that leads to longer-term problems.

And thats another point you Liberals don't get.

Socialism is an economic invention by the "Elite" to lull in protected markets, subsidized with public dollars, that has a popular appeal.

Its the evolutionary step before Facism or Totalaltarism that allows the ruling class to amass and consolidate wealth and political power while keeping the Sheep (you) suffiential placated and poor.

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from achilles28:

As a dual US-Canadian Citizen that lives 90% in Canada, you're wrong.

Then disprove the study.

The Rich go to private clinics or overseas (US or Asia). The wait times for complicated surgeries can be huge.

Well there's always a few percent, but the vast majority don't as you can see from the citation that you are refusing to read.

Metropoltian Doctors are burdened by Immigrants who abuse the system. Grand-daddy got a head-ache? Call the ambulance. They got the sniffles? Go to Emergency. Little Junior stubbed his toe? Go to the Doctors. Hey, why not?! Its Free, RIGHT?!?!

Same thing in the US. The difference is that Canada spends less as a percentage of GDP than the US. A lot less. In fact, as much as 5% of GDP less.

Any Metro clinic is filled with immigants. And its not of the white, Judeo-Christian-European-type who descend from frugal austerity. Its the Browns and Asians who give two-shits about their New Country and a sense of entitlement that puts you Socialists' to shame.

Well first off I'm a fiscal conservative. I understand that you don't recognize one.

Secondly, the US does have a few immigrants as well.

Its the evolutionary step before Facism or Totalaltarism that allows the ruling class to amass and consolidate wealth and political power while keeping the Sheep (you) suffiential placated and poor.

Well I've learned the following:

1) You don't read studies.

2) You think the US doesn't have immigrants.

3) You're a bigot.

4) You can't recognize a fiscal conservative if one is right in front of you.

5) You think that the Canadian provincial medicine systems costs more than the US system. It does not.

 

[Gord]

Canadian health care is rationed health care. Almost everything is done by the queue. Access to specialists, tests, treatments, surgeries. And those queues are measured in months.

A relative of mine had hip surgery lately. It took one full year from diagnosis to going under the knife. It was fascilitated through one central office - their rules and timetables were god. There was nowhere else to go except outside of the country.

Pay the extra 5% and keep your choices. Just look at other large programs that the government runs. Social Security - going bankrupt. Medicare - going bankrupt. And you want to add healthcare to that list?

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from Gord:

Canadian health care is rationed health care. Almost everything is done by the queue. Access to specialists, tests, treatments, surgeries. And those queues are measured in months.

Which province? British Columbia, for example, posts its wait times online.

http://www.swl.hlth.gov.bc.ca/swl/s...tListBySurgSpecNLF?IHospital=123&IEvent=93.51

You have to wait five days at a St. Paul's Hospital with one doctor, as you can see. The linked list is for UBC, where another doctor has a three week wait not one year. So everyone can see that you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

A relative of mine had hip surgery lately. It took one full year from diagnosis to going under the knife. It was fascilitated through one central office - their rules and timetables were god. There was nowhere else to go except outside of the country.

So why didn't "your relative" go out of the country? Lazy? Stupid? Or didn't want to pay like people have to in the US...

 

[Yannis]

Quote from bigdavediode:

Then disprove the study...

BigDave,

As I said before, you look at numbers over the internet and then get another fake study (like that idiotic, misleading film by Michael Moore) and think that you've got truth. But you haven't. Achilles is right, listen to him, that's exactly the spirit that I got from my Canadian friends, colleagues from my AT&T days (3 professional families who live in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.)

I lived in Greece when I was a child and visit there every so often; I've also lived in Belgium as an AT&T expat. In addition, I know France and England very well from my business travel days and numerous relatives who live there. It's not nearly as good as some amateurs portray. You go to a supermarket in Brussels or Paris or Athens and you come out a lot poorer than when you exit Shoprite or Pathmark here. People brag about their brand new Toyota Corollas the same way people here brag about their Lexus. Taxes in places like England and Belgium are crippling and power (government or big business) in most places is for sale a lot more than in the US. That's my experience.

If you look at the right kind of numbers from truly neutral sources (eg, income levels, taxes, purchasing power, etc) you'll see that. Oh well.

 

[Pa(b)st Prime]

Your data is inconclusive. It's the wait time to see a specialist who will put you on the list that's inordinately lengthy.

http://pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/cjo/cjo42/i07-162.pdf

Quote from bigdavediode:

Which province? British Columbia, for example, posts its wait times online.

http://www.swl.hlth.gov.bc.ca/swl/s...tListBySurgSpecNLF?IHospital=123&IEvent=93.51

You have to wait five days at a St. Paul's Hospital with one doctor, as you can see. The linked list is for UBC, where another doctor has a three week wait not one year. So everyone can see that you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.



So why didn't "your relative" go out of the country? Lazy? Stupid? Or didn't want to pay like people have to in the US...

 

[Gord]

Quote from bigdavediode:

British Columbia, for example, posts its wait times online.

http://www.swl.hlth.gov.bc.ca/swl/s...tListBySurgSpecNLF?IHospital=123&IEvent=93.51

You have to wait five days at a St. Paul's Hospital with one doctor, as you can see. The linked list is for UBC, where another doctor has a three week wait. So everyone can see that you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.



So why didn't "your relative" go out of the country? Lazy? Stupid? Or didn't want to pay like everybody has to in the US...

You are a complete dimwit who knows nothing.

There is more to getting a hip replaced than just the surgery. Those wait times are only after all tests are done, day school for the patient, acquiring the necessary home implements, possible physical therapy to prepare for the surgery, etc. Each step can take weeks or months. I garrantee no one gets hip sugery within a few weeks of their diagnosis. Unless they have a relative in the system to move things along, which is not unusual - rationing breeds corruption.

And leaving the country is only an option for the rich because private health insurance to the extent it is available is very expensive (and you still must pay for the public health insurance). No one carries private health insurance, so if you wish to go out of the country you would have to pay cash for all of the procedures and hospital fees, as well as hotel stays for the pre surgery procedures.

Again, every time you hear about "universal" Canadian health care, think RATIONED health care. That's what Obama wants to sell you...

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from Yannis:

BigDave,

As I said before, you look at numbers over the internet and then get another fake study (like that idiotic, misleading film by Michael Moore)

Just as you cited the Stalin film to support your beliefs. (You didn't, but since you're making things up I feel I can too...)

and think that you've got truth. But you haven't. Achilles is right, listen to him, that's exactly the spirit that I got from my Canadian friends, colleagues from my AT&T days (3 professional families who live in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.)

I've lived in Vancouver (Burnaby, actually). Does my opinion count since you're disregarding statistics in favor of anecdotes?

I lived in Greece when I was a child and visit there every so often; I've also lived in Belgium as an AT&T expat.

Great! I've lived in Mexico, the US, Finland, Canada (Alberta and British Columbia)... what's the point again? That anecdotes are relevant? Well then I win.

In addition, I know France and England very well from my business travel days and numerous relatives who live there.

Sweet! Then I win again! I've been to England at least five times, Norway, Finland (for months), Sweden, Russia multiple times, France multiple times, Germany multiple times, Estonia multiple times, Holland multiple times, etc. etc. etc. etc.

So my anecdotes should beat your anecdotes by a kilometer. (Little metric joke there.)

It's not nearly as good as some amateurs portray.

Well I can assure you that I've been pretty much everywhere more than your friends, your relatives and yourself combined, and for greater durations.

You go to a supermarket in Brussels or Paris or Athens and you come out a lot poorer than when you exit Shoprite or Pathmark here.

Well that's true. In Norway I paid about $32 for two Big Mac Meals. But then you pay nothing for healthcare and about the same for groceries. It's a good trade.

People brag about their brand new Toyota Corollas the same way people here brag about their Lexus. Taxes in places like England and Belgium are crippling and power (government or big business) in most places is for sale a lot more than in the US. That's my experience.

If you look at the right kind of numbers from truly neutral sources (eg, income levels, taxes, purchasing power, etc) you'll see that. Oh well.

I have and I have lived it as well. When I first visited Norway I mentioned what I earned (which was a very good wage for the work I was doing) -- they laughed. That income would be what a laborer would make over there.

That opened my eyes.

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from Gord:

And leaving the country is only an option for the rich because private health insurance to the extent it is available is very expensive .

GORD THE RETARD CLUES IN TO WHY MOST AMERICANS WANT A UNIVERSAL SYSTEM! CONGRATULATIONS GORD!

 

[Yannis]

Quote from bigdavediode:

Just as you cited the Stalin film to support your beliefs. (You didn't, but since you're making things up I feel I can too...)...

LOL! That's a good one, bravo