socialism in America.

[Magic]

This is quite an interesting discussion. I read the first half of this thread a while back and now just caught the last two pages. I was initially taken aback somewhat by the direct questioning of inheritance norms; they're taken for granted so easily I haven't thought about the justification behind them before.

I'm personally don't think the child themselves in this example has an absolute "right" to receive the estate so much as the individual formerly possessing the wealth has the right to direct the majority of it. As to what degree their will should be protected and executed... that's the difficult line to draw; and usually in those cases either extreme is wrong. To have no inheritance tax at all toward the support of society seems unhealthy.. and using inheritance as a taxable event is at least as legitimate as using wages earned or sale of goods.

Go too far the other way and deny an individual the right to distribute the majority of his wealth upon passing and that starts to eat into personal freedom. A healthy society in my mind is built up from healthy, autonomous, and cooperative communities. And healthy communities are built from healthy, autonomous, and cooperative families. The right balance between protecting those sub-structures and encouraging them to flourish; while limiting corruption and the entrenchment of power needs to be struck.

Ultimately when I encounter conversations like these.. I find a lot of people getting way too hung up on the legalities, as if laws themselves ultimately account for the behavior of society; when the underlying culture and values do more of the heavy lifting, in my opinion. No matter what gun laws we create, the tragedies will still find a way to occur until people decide to stop shooting each other.

 

[Sig]

This is quite an interesting discussion. I read the first half of this thread a while back and now just caught the last two pages. I was initially taken aback somewhat by the direct questioning of inheritance norms; they're taken for granted so easily I haven't thought about the justification behind them before.

I'm personally don't think the child themselves in this example has an absolute "right" to receive the estate so much as the individual formerly possessing the wealth has the right to direct the majority of it. As to what degree their will should be protected and executed... that's the difficult line to draw; and usually in those cases either extreme is wrong. To have no inheritance tax at all toward the support of society seems unhealthy.. and using inheritance as a taxable event is at least as legitimate as using wages earned or sale of goods.

Go too far the other way and deny an individual the right to distribute the majority of his wealth upon passing and that starts to eat into personal freedom. A healthy society in my mind is built up from healthy, autonomous, and cooperative communities. And healthy communities are built from healthy, autonomous, and cooperative families. The right balance between protecting those sub-structures and encouraging them to flourish; while limiting corruption and the entrenchment of power needs to be struck.

Ultimately when I encounter conversations like these.. I find a lot of people getting way too hung up on the legalities, as if laws themselves ultimately account for the behavior of society; when the underlying culture and values do more of the heavy lifting, in my opinion. No matter what gun laws we create, the tragedies will still find a way to occur until people decide to stop shooting each other.

That is a very nuanced and intelligent reply. Thanks and welcome to ET if you're a recent joined member.

 

[Handle123]

Socialism worked really well for the ordinary people in so many places - USSR, Venezuela, Yugoslavia, eastern Europe, China, Cuba, North Korea, Cambodia.............

I agree. And America is well on the way with huge increase in Disability payments handed out each month and any city is handed out SNAPS to abled body people. We certainly know the above countries are too quick with bullets, we have a stockpile. Guns don't kill people, bullets and bombs do..

 

[Sig]

I agree. And America is well on the way with huge increase in Disability payments handed out each month and any city is handed out SNAPS to abled body people. We certainly know the above countries are too quick with bullets, we have a stockpile. Guns don't kill people, bullets and bombs do..

I'm not sure what "any city is handed out SNAPS to able body people" means? Are you doubly confused and think that the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) is both restricted to the disabled and administered by cities. Are you aware that 44% of SNAP recipients are children? While able body (sic), you've got to be pretty twisted to think a 5 year old ought to be working for food if by accident of birth they ended up with parents who couldn't provide enough food to them!
And by Disability (sic) payments, presumably you're talking about Social Security Disability Benefits? The program we've been spending less and less money on every year since 2008. I don't think the term "huge increase" means what you think it means!

You're being fed a bunch of crap that's not only false but easily verifiable as so if you could be bothered to get off your couch and do some independent research and thinking. Don't let fox and friends make you come off like an moron or a jerk by believing what they're feeding you!

 

[digitalnomad]

My question is why a child morally deserves to inherit their parent's wealth, take the state out of it entirely for now?

Your thinking is flawed. Maybe that parent worked 20 hours a day, and sacrificed their family life and health to build that dynasty. I know my father did. I’ll fight the government tooth and nail to preserve what he built, and make sure it gets passed down to the next generation.

 

[Sig]

Your thinking is flawed. Maybe that parent worked 20 hours a day, and sacrificed their family life and health to build that dynasty. I know my father did. I’ll fight the government tooth and nail to preserve what he built, and make sure it gets passed down to the next generation.

So you did what exactly to deserve or earn that? That's my question, no question that your father worked to get what he has and I can understand in general that a wealth transfer from him while alive would be questioned. I too am an entrepreneur who has worked my behind off to build companies. If you were part of that, you would have worked toward and earned some of it. I have a much harder time with why you, or my children, "deserve" or "earned" anything by the accident of being lucky enough to be born to the right parents. I get why you'd fight tooth and nail to get free money, greed's a powerful thing. I just don't see a moral justification to you, or my kids, being entitled to it. Your logic breaks down when you jump from the hard working parent to the kid who didn't do anything but be born. And no, being deprived of family life doesn't count as you "earning" anything, if that was the case there's a bunch of dirt poor kids in WV that aren't getting what they "earned" when their heroin addict parents die. I can maybe see some justification in the moral right of the parent to give, although I'd make several arguments about rights ceasing upon death. But I see no right, and you've presented none except greed, for the moral right of the child to get.

 

[digitalnomad]

My father passed away a few years ago, but I was, and still am actively involved in the asset management, and built my own stake seperately as well. But that’s not the point. If the parent wishes the hard earned assets get transferred to the child, regardless of their contribution or lifestyle, it shouldn’t be questioned. I call that robbery. Socialists call it redistribution.

 

[Sig]

My father passed away a few years ago, but I was, and still am actively involved in the asset management, and built my own stake seperately as well. But that’s not the point. If the parent wishes the hard earned assets get transferred to the child, regardless of their contribution or lifestyle, it shouldn’t be questioned. I call that robbery. Socialists call it redistribution.

You can call it whatever you want, I'm asking you to morally justify it beyond "we always did it that way" or "because digitalnomad calls it so". I can morally justify most of what I believe it, but I can't do it with inheritance and I'm not hearing anything enlightening here beyond "Because I said so", a term I vowed to never use with my kids or tolerate as an answer.

 

[digitalnomad]

I don’t know a simpler way to explain it to you. There is no moral justification for breaking into a law biding citizens house and emptying their safe. What part of theft don’t you understand?

 

[Sig]

I don’t know a simpler way to explain it to you. There is no moral justification for breaking into a law biding citizens house and emptying their safe. What part of theft don’t you understand?

To steal is to take something that morally belongs to someone. I'm questioning why a parent's wealth morally belongs to their children, absent them doing anything to earn or deserve it (clearly your case of working in your family's business isn't what I'm talking about, we're talking Paris Hilton inheriting millions having done nothing type situation). I'm asking you to ask why a couple levels deeper than you may be used to, which I realize may be uncomfortable, but try not to revert to "I say it's stealing so it is" logic which isn't logic at all.