Single Payer is they will give us in end

List 1 example of someone from U.S. going to Canada to pay for any kind of serious healthcare, I dont think you can find a single article that would show that.

As for going to Mexico, or Brazil, I can only give you my personal example, a story i havent shared with anyone on this site till this point. I recently had 80% of my stomach removed in Mexico.(gastric sleeve surgery)

I had put on about 50 pounds over the last 5 years being a lazy ass day trader, and i tried dieting and always failed and kept getting heavier, so i was tired of dealing with it.

Anyways when i went to doctors in Canada they said to me that i wasnt heavy enough for the healthcare system to justify me doing the surgery, and that even if I was it would be a three year wait in order to get this surgery. So i did my research, found a world renowned surgeon in Mexico, and got the surgery. I was a little worried at first, cause the picture i had in my mind of going to a mexican hospital was some back alley butcher shop, they had lots of places like that down there where they just pumped people through all day with the surgery, there was a shit load of people who kept coming to the hotel i was staying at to get the surgery, they were literally bringing them in by the busload but the cost at that place was only about 5k, i paid 17k.

What i got for paying more, was a world renowned surgeon,(she is published in various medical articles, and there is numerous magazine articles about her) i got my own room for three days in the hospital along with T.V. and all the amenities, My view outside the window was overlooking a golf course, plus i had nurses coming in at night to give me a massage every night to make me feel better. I actually felt guilty when they were coming in every night but it felt pretty good. The most amazing part is that it was literally pain free, four small holes in my stomach, i was up and walking two hours after the surgery. The only brutal thing was when they pulled a drainage tube out of the side of my stomach three days after the surgery, that was the worst thing ive ever had happen to me, you could literally feel the tube coming through your stomach, and the pain was unbearable but that was about three seconds.

Because it was run like a business, i had a numbers person come in and ask me a bunch of questions about the experience, and ask me how i would rate my pain on a scale of 1-10, i literally told them 0, didnt feel a thing. But the government system in Canada isnt worried about shit like that, because its not a business its the government, its the only option, they couldnt care less how i rated their service.

But the bottom line is this, I never would have gotten that surgery in Canada, i wouldnt have even been allowed to because of rationing. (I wasnt heavy enough) The whole time i was in a private hospital i not only had nurses waiting on me hand and foot, i had actual doctors coming in and checking in on me every couple hours. This is unheard of in the Canadian system.

It does not happen in Canada, I would have ended up in a group room with other people, no privacy, no t.v. no amenities. So i find it hard to fathom that anyone who has witnessed both places, and the level of healthcare you get could possibly come to the conclusion that our healthcare system is better, if you have the money to pay for it.
My impression is that the care in Mexico is accessible and quite good, with lots of well trained M.D.s It seems you made a good decision to go there for your surgery. I couldn't comment on whether having the surgery was a good decision. That's a personal decision. I suppose you'll know the answer in a few years depending on whether any complications pop up. I hope you remain pleased with the result. Curiously I know someone quite well who is going to Brazil to have exactly the same surgery in April. I am not in favor of it in my friends case, she's not heavy enough in my opinion to justify it, but it is not my decision to make. She is an American Citizen, and has medical coverage, but she can't get approval for the surgery in the U.S. --not heavy enough. She ran into the same problem in Brazil when she last visited, but she did not need to gain quite so much weight to qualify there. Shes been eating like a starving pig since she's been back to get up to the weight she needs to qualify. That doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not in charge of her life.

I personally had a wonderful medical care experience in Petropolis Brazil a few years back. I was treated by an Ear Nose and Throat Specialist. Fast, effective and amazingly inexpensive for me, a tourist with a bad head infection picked up Swimming in Rio. Head the shape of a pumpkin! http://www.hst.org.br/site/instalacoes.php?sessao=Quem%20Somos&modulo=Instala%E7%F5es

Ever since I've been a bit negative on U.S. health care, having experienced care in a system that seemed infinitely better in every way imaginable. But my tale is anecdotal!
 
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Dude this article is straight up propaganda, from someone who is clearly a diehard liberal with no knowledge on the subject. And you still havent given me a single example of someone paying to go to canada for healthcare.

First off he says that Taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border, this may very well be the most assinine thing i have ever heard, when i spent 2 years living in Las Vegas, my average annual tax rate was about 25% when in Canada, my average tax rate is over 40% so even if i chose to pay for healthcare, which would be maybe 2-3k per year that only would have taken my rate to 26% in the states. The biggest difference between the two systems is that the higher tax brackets kick in at much lower levels in canada, so yeah, the people making the average pay little to no taxes in both countries, but if you make over 100k in canada, vs over 100k in the states the difference in tax rates is staggering.


Secondly

Myth: Canada’s government decides who gets health care and when they get it

This is 100% true, i dont know where this guy comes from but the bottom line at the end of the day, if you want an MRI in canada you wait three-to six months unless you are willing to pay 10k if you need one in the states you are in the next day, this applies to surgery, it applies to everything. Yes if you walk into an emergency room, with a bullet in your leg you will get treated instantly, but the perversity comes in the fact that the government deems what is necessary and what isnt, so if you are a 60 year old carpenter still struggling to make ends meet and you need hip replacement surgery well that will be 2 years because that isnt life threatening, so in the mean time, you cant work, and you go broke, because you have to sit around and wait for something that supposedly isnt life threatening.

Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.

I dont even see how any rational person could consider this a myth, anyone who lives in canada knows it happens all the time, so this is just a flat out lie on the authors behalf, though he did have a point about provinces paying for healthcare for people who are dying and can only get treatment in the states cause we dont have the technology.

A very good friend of mine recently passed away from leukemia, and because we didnt have the technology here to try to treat him properly, they paid for him to go to seattle, and try to get treatment. This was straight up because we dont have enough specialists up here to treat his condition, but it is incredibly rare when the government does this, and only when its a life or death situation.

Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.

I dont even know how you could consider this a myth when there is a 6 month wait time to get an MRI in canada unless you pay for it in cash, in which case you can be in the next day.


Myth: Canada’s health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.

Not sure how you could say that is a myth, his only justification seems to be that the bureaucracy in the states is even worse.

Myth: There aren’t enough doctors in Canada.

Pretty sure no one is even making this argument, simply arguing the best people tend to go to privatised systems that reward their competence.



Both Canada and the U.S. have

It seems opinions differ. Surprise surprise. I say select carefully the ones you accept as knowledgeable.

From the Denver Post:

Debunking Canadian health care myths
By Special to The Denver Post
June 4, 2009 at 1:41 pm

As a Canadian living in the United States for the past 17 years, I am frequently asked by Americans and Canadians alike to declare one health care system as the better one.

Often I’ll avoid answering, regardless of the questioner’s nationality. To choose one or the other system usually translates into a heated discussion of each one’s merits, pitfalls, and an intense recitation of commonly cited statistical comparisons of the two systems.

Because if the only way we compared the two systems was with statistics, there is a clear victor. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to dispute the fact that Canada spends less money on health care to get better outcomes.

Yet, the debate rages on. Indeed, it has reached a fever pitch since President Barack Obama took office, with Americans either dreading or hoping for the dawn of a single-payer health care system. Opponents of such a system cite Canada as the best example of what not to do, while proponents laud that very same Canadian system as the answer to all of America’s health care problems. Frankly, both sides often get things wrong when trotting out Canada to further their respective arguments.

As America comes to grips with the reality that changes are desperately needed within its health care infrastructure, it might prove useful to first debunk some myths about the Canadian system.

Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.

In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall, Canada’s taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However, Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher education), so the end result is a wash. At the end of the day, the average after-tax income of Canadian workers is equal to about 82 percent of their gross pay. In the U.S., that average is 81.9 percent.

Myth: Canada’s health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.

The U.S. has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead. Think about it. It is not necessary to spend a huge amount of money to decide who gets care and who doesn’t when everybody is covered.

Myth: The Canadian system is significantly more expensive than that of the U.S.Ten percent of Canada’s GDP is spent on health care for 100 percent of the population. The U.S. spends 17 percent of its GDP but 15 percent of its population has no coverage whatsoever and millions of others have inadequate coverage. In essence, the U.S. system is considerably more expensive than Canada’s. Part of the reason for this is uninsured and underinsured people in the U.S. still get sick and eventually seek care. People who cannot afford care wait until advanced stages of an illness to see a doctor and then do so through emergency rooms, which cost considerably more than primary care services.

What the American taxpayer may not realize is that such care costs about $45 billion per year, and someone has to pay it. This is why insurance premiums increase every year for insured patients while co-pays and deductibles also rise rapidly.

Myth: Canada’s government decides who gets health care and when they get it.While HMOs and other private medical insurers in the U.S. do indeed make such decisions, the only people in Canada to do so are physicians. In Canada, the government has absolutely no say in who gets care or how they get it. Medical decisions are left entirely up to doctors, as they should be.

There are no requirements for pre-authorization whatsoever. If your family doctor says you need an MRI, you get one. In the U.S., if an insurance administrator says you are not getting an MRI, you don’t get one no matter what your doctor thinks — unless, of course, you have the money to cover the cost.

Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.There are no waits for urgent or primary care in Canada. There are reasonable waits for most specialists’ care, and much longer waits for elective surgery. Yes, there are those instances where a patient can wait up to a month for radiation therapy for breast cancer or prostate cancer, for example. However, the wait has nothing to do with money per se, but everything to do with the lack of radiation therapists. Despite such waits, however, it is noteworthy that Canada boasts lower incident and mortality rates than the U.S. for all cancers combined, according to the U.S. Cancer Statistics Working Group and the Canadian Cancer Society. Moreover, fewer Canadians (11.3 percent) than Americans (14.4 percent) admit unmet health care needs.

Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.Most patients who come from Canada to the U.S. for health care are those whose costs are covered by the Canadian governments. If a Canadian goes outside of the country to get services that are deemed medically necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician expertise), the provincial government where you live fully funds your care. Those patients who do come to the U.S. for care and pay out of pocket are those who perceive their care to be more urgent than it likely is.

Myth: Canada is a socialized health care system in which the government runs hospitals and where doctors work for the government.Princeton University health economist Uwe Reinhardt says single-payer systems are not “socialized medicine” but “social insurance” systems because doctors work in the private sector while their pay comes from a public source. Most physicians in Canada are self-employed. They are not employees of the government nor are they accountable to the government. Doctors are accountable to their patients only. More than 90 percent of physicians in Canada are paid on a fee-for-service basis. Claims are submitted to a single provincial health care plan for reimbursement, whereas in the U.S., claims are submitted to a multitude of insurance providers. Moreover, Canadian hospitals are controlled by private boards and/or regional health authorities rather than being part of or run by the government.

Myth: There aren’t enough doctors in Canada.

From a purely statistical standpoint, there are enough physicians in Canada to meet the health care needs of its people. But most doctors practice in large urban areas, leaving rural areas with bona fide shortages. This situation is no different than that being experienced in the U.S. Simply training and employing more doctors is not likely to have any significant impact on this specific problem. Whatever issues there are with having an adequate number of doctors in any one geographical area, they have nothing to do with the single-payer system.

And these are just some of the myths about the Canadian health care system. While emulating the Canadian system will likely not fix U.S. health care, it probably isn’t the big bad “socialist” bogeyman it has been made out to be.

It is not a perfect system, but it has its merits. For people like my 55-year-old Aunt Betty, who has been waiting for 14 months for knee-replacement surgery due to a long history of arthritis, it is the superior system. Her $35,000-plus surgery is finally scheduled for next month. She has been in pain, and her quality of life has been compromised. However, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Aunt Betty — who lives on a fixed income and could never afford private health insurance, much less the cost of the surgery and requisite follow-up care — will soon sport a new, high-tech knee. Waiting 14 months for the procedure is easy when the alternative is living in pain for the rest of your life.

Rhonda Hackett of Castle Rock is a clinical psychologist.

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So far no complications, and ive lost alot of weight. I would recommend it to anyone provided they go to the right place, and they understand the trade offs before hand, like i said pain free, and i got treated like a god. If your friend is looking for a doctor i would highly reccomend Dr. Pompa, like i said i did my research, she is nationally accredited and one of the leading doctors in the world in terms of bariatric surgery, but it is most likely going to be more expensive than the price in Brazil, 17k for me all in with flights and hotels.

Only complication with it is its a big lifestyle change, like i cant eat anything more than a few bites of food at any given time, so going to restaraunts and stuff is just pointless. Only real issue i have now is when i go to my parents house or something and try to consume somewhat of a normal meal, i just get sick afterwords cause there is simply no room in my stomach, i eat tiny portions but even having a small couple bites of salad, a couple bites of protein, and a couple bites of potatoes is too much, now days i mostly just nibble on food here and there throughout the day and thats enough to keep me going.

My impression is that the care in Mexico is accessible and quite good, with lots of well trained M.D. It seems you made a good decision to go there for your surgery. I couldn't comment on whether having the surgery was a good decision. That's a personal decision. I suppose you'll know the answer in a few years depending on whether any complications pop up. I hope you remain pleased with the result. Curiously I know someone quite well who is going to Brazil to have exactly the same surgery in April. I am not in favor of it in my friends case, she's not heavy enough in my opinion to justify it, but it is not my decision to make. She is an American Citizen, and has medical coverage, but she can't get approval for the surgery in the U.S. --not heavy enough.
 
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ok you discuss it without politics. Just don't come back to me asking for more money because I am TEA (taxed enough already.) I will be very interested to read your discussion which gives the people you want to help better healthcare without raising my taxes. You picked a good time to make your move because we have a president that is not conservative and a congress that wants to win the spending war. You should be happier than a pig in shit.
Isn't that the problem? It is costing too much!!! I'd love to see your costs go down, but even more I'd love to see mine go down! Sadly, I just see a bunch of cost shifting in the proposed plan. No reduction, net. Do you think medical care will get less expensive if we do away with government? I guess we are going to get a chance to find out.
 
So far no complications, and ive lost alot of weight. I would recommend it to anyone provided they go to the right place, and they understand the trade offs before hand, like i said pain free, and i got treated like a god. If your friend is looking for a doctor i would highly reccomend Dr. Pompa, like i said i did my research, she is nationally accredited and one of the leading doctors in the world in terms of bariatric surgery, but it is most likely going to be more expensive than the price in Brazil, 17k for me all in with flights and hotels.

Only complication with it is its a big lifestyle change, like i cant eat anything more than a few bites of food at any given time, so going to restaraunts and stuff is just pointless. Only real issue i have now is when i go to my parents house or something and try to consume somewhat of a normal meal, i just get sick afterwords cause there is simply no room in my stomach, i eat tiny portions but even having a small couple bites of salad, a couple bites of protein, and a couple bites of potatoes is too much, now days i mostly just nibble on food here and there throughout the day and thats enough to keep me going.
You're going to need a new wardrobe for your new svelte self!
 
You're going to need a new wardrobe for your new svelte self!


LOL, my clothes are already falling off of me, the other day in the grocery store when i was reaching up for something on the shelf my pants literally just fell down to my ankles, thankfully no one was watching. im only down about 30 pounds, but alot of that is from the pre-op and post-op diet, I had to eat/drink nothing but juice and soup, liquid diet for 3 months, 1 month leading in and 2 months afterwords, it got to the point where choking down chicken noodle soup broth was like drinking my own vomit. Dont ever want to see another bowl of chicken noodle soup as long as i live.

Id be comfortable if i lost another 20 lbs cause my playing weight in hockey was 240, but if it keeps going beyond that id be even more happy, I was never a chiseled kid with a six pack, always a bigger guy.
 
Isn't that the problem? It is costing too much!!! I'd love to see your costs go down, but even more I'd love to see mine go down! Sadly, I just see a bunch of cost shifting in the proposed plan. No reduction, net. Do you think medical care will get less expensive if we do away with government? I guess we are going to get a chance to find out.
Costs will not go down as long as we have 400 congressmen protecting the purveyors of high priced care. I think individually everybodys heart is in the right place. But when they get together they split off into partys and end justifies the means in that I can't help people if I don't get elected and I need the bribe to stay in power. Of course since it is PC day n ET I should not say bribe but rather "support." The funny thing about Mexico is it's the most capitalistic right wing conservative functioning country I can think of, but you can find a cheap doctor. Not a free government doctor, just a good cheap doctor. Go figure. But if you work in Mexico then I suppose they are as expensive as anywhere. Perhaps if you really want my healthcare to be affordable you should help me make more money!!!!! All problems should be reserved for the wealthy. As long as they can get good healthcare we don't have a problem. Many problems that one side you are not a member of keep complaining about could be easily solved if people made more money. We should just keep raising the minimum wage and forget healthcare until Warren Buffet complains he can't find a good affordable doctor. Because that side won't be happy as long as even one person is not suffering.
 
So far no complications, and ive lost alot of weight. I would recommend it to anyone provided they go to the right place, and they understand the trade offs before hand, like i said pain free, and i got treated like a god. If your friend is looking for a doctor i would highly reccomend Dr. Pompa, like i said i did my research, she is nationally accredited and one of the leading doctors in the world in terms of bariatric surgery, but it is most likely going to be more expensive than the price in Brazil, 17k for me all in with flights and hotels.

Only complication with it is its a big lifestyle change, like i cant eat anything more than a few bites of food at any given time, so going to restaraunts and stuff is just pointless. Only real issue i have now is when i go to my parents house or something and try to consume somewhat of a normal meal, i just get sick afterwords cause there is simply no room in my stomach, i eat tiny portions but even having a small couple bites of salad, a couple bites of protein, and a couple bites of potatoes is too much, now days i mostly just nibble on food here and there throughout the day and thats enough to keep me going.

Glad it worked out for you and you are doing well.
 
Glad it worked out for you and you are doing well.


Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate it, this is two times in two days we have been able to be nice to each other, i hope you dont take offense if i call you an asshole in my next post just so we can get back to our modus operandi. Just kidding thanks again! :D
 
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