I agree 100%.
Single Payer is they will give us in end
- Thread starter wildchild
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I agree 100%.
You may be getting carried away a bit. 1. I am not a Democrat ; 2. It's not my government, it's our government ; 3. People die everyday in the U.S. that wouldn't have died until much later had they access to routine medical care. In the States that did not expand medicaid, there are those who can not qualify for medicaid (no dependents), make to little to qualify for premium supplement, and can't afford the entire insurance premium. They have no access to routine care, seeing the same doctor each time, etc. They go to emergency rooms, or to charity clinics when the can scrape up $30. They die younger than you or I ; 4. Does your friend qualify for medicaid? Probably not. There you go! If not, your friend only thinks he got all that care for free. He got it because of the law, but it is not free. The hospital's bevy of attorneys on retainers and collection agencies will hound him the rest of his life, if they can. If he ever gets a well paying job where his income is above the median for a similar household in his state, he'll have his wages or salary garnished. If not, he'll probably have to pay an attorney to help him declare chapter 7 bankruptcy and stop the endless bills.
Now I ask you, is that what you want for you country?
It all sounds so simple doesn't it. The sick and poor (47%) in one basket, and the well in another for the insurance companies to feed on, or the emergency rooms to treat. What a wonderful thing!
My suggestion: Do some more reading and thinking, and get back to us.
People in Canda also die because they dont have access to the best healthcare in a timely matter, so people are going to die because of the system regardless of which way you go.
The liberal way of looking at healthcare is that we should make every single Americans healthcare worse so that we can pay for people who cant afford it, where as the conservative idea is that those who can afford to pay for it, should have the ability and the choice to do it.
People will die because of the system in both instances, why is your idea more noble? Why is it more noble to screw the guy who worked hard, and acted responsibly his whole life, so that someone who was irresponsible can live a better life?
The liberal way of looking at healthcare is that we should make every single Americans healthcare worse so that we can pay for people who cant afford it, where as the conservative idea is that those who can afford to pay for it, should have the ability and the choice to do it.
People will die because of the system in both instances, why is your idea more noble? Why is it more noble to screw the guy who worked hard, and acted responsibly his whole life, so that someone who was irresponsible can live a better life?
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You may have made assumption that won't hold up on closer examination. For example: "better physicians in the U.S." I doubt you'll find anything other than anecdote, or highly questionable criteria, to back that up. You seemed to imply that there is not rationing or waiting in the U.S., I doubt you'll find anything except anecdote to back that up. It would make more sense to do a study of waiting times and de facto rationing in the U.S. and Canada, or France, or any other developed country. Then compare the results. And the statement "best doctors in the world" might be hard to back as well without falling back on anecdote. We can safely say however that they are the best we know of. That's fair.
I have personal anecdotes to refute each claim, but i'll spare you that nonsense.
You ask: " .. do you think the odds are that the best doctors in the world are going to stay in a rationed system where theres price controls on wages when they can simply go somewhere else?
Here is my answer: As long as hey can make as much money here as someplace else that is comparable in living standards the answer is , "Yes," the odds are they will stay right here. You can cut the highest paid U.S. cardio surgeon's income in half and they will stay put. They are going to make the same or less in any other country. You don't have to cut the lowest paid cardio surgeon's income, they will stay put too, because they will make the same or less in any other country they might consider moving to.
A whole paragraph correcting my speech for not being PC. Yes you are not registered democrat but we all know who you would vote for if you lived in MI, PA or WI. You an Chris Matthews, true independents who only voted once in their life for a republican and it wasn't a president. Yes the government is the taxpayer. Do I need to go on? 2016 election, done with PC. You know what I mean, don't be a nitpicker. Medicaid? How many times do I have to tell you? It's the ONLY thing that makes sense. It should be expanded. My friend will declare medical bankruptcy if the bills ever stop coming. What's wrong with that? The most efficient means of getting world class care. Probably cost him $400 for a lawyer. Done deal. Emergency room charity clinic? I'm surprised Amazon Prime doesn't already have one. Costco could easily provide routine care for all it's members. When I had a problem with no insurance I couldn't even find a doctor to see me. I went to the free clinic, they took a look and handed me a piece of paper and told me to go to the hospital and hand them the paper and they will send the results back to the clinic and the clinic will call me. All free no questions asked, no means testing. They called and said to go see a specialist. Then I was on my own, but the point is, you are trying to replace what we already have. Now you gonna nitpick me on how it wasn't really free? It's a tax deduction for somebody. You want to go the democrat route and complain a tax deduction robs our military from the money they need and that is why Trump must make his tax returns public? I can get my oil changed at the clinic and only go to the dealership when necessary. And those dealership/hospitals are outrageous. The funny thing is, my oil change guy has like 12 years worth of details about my car in his computer and knows just what it needs when it needs it. When you start seeing adds for $19.99 checkup and free flu shot with coupon we have arrived.
But thats not even close to reality, i have a friend from college (again another anecdotal case) who is a Thoracic surgeon, highly specialised, and one of the best in the country he makes a million bucks a year here, where as in the states he could probably add an extra zero to that number, He is an immigrant from Kenya ironically (insert Obama conspiracy theory here) who came here when he was very young, he is staying in canada mostly because of the fact that it would take years to go down to the united states, get new medical licenses, and get proper immigration, he said he would be in the u.s. in a second though if he had a choice.
The bottom line is that most people who work hard enough and long enough to obtain a medical degree, would prefer to work in the U.S. i mean thats undeniable. Why do you think when you go to the doctors office half the time the doctor you see is an immigrant with an accent? If these people were just doing it to be a doctor, and to be noble, why is it that they dont go back to where they came from after obtaining their medical degree? Why do they choose to stay in the U.S. or even choose to stay in Canada, as opposed to going back to home?
Why is it that there arent people paying money to come see Canada's doctors when they get sick? Why dont you hear stories of Americans travelling to the U.K. for treatment when they get sick?
You're the one that needs to do some thinking, because that is where you and your democrat party that you always vote for even though you are not a registered democrat are taking us.It all sounds so simple doesn't it. The sick and poor (47%) in one basket, and the well in another for the insurance companies to feed on, or the emergency rooms to treat. What a wonderful thing!
My suggestion: Do some more reading and thinking, and get back to us.
My ideas are not more nobel than yours or the are just alternative whys of looking at thing and alternative ideas. I don't know exactly what a "liberal" way of looking at healthcare is. I'm a libertarian, but not a neo-libertarian, or an alt right libertarian, or an anarcho libertarian. So what "liberal healthcare" would mean to me personally is that it is healthcare founded on the notion that no country is truly civilized that does not provide a basic level of healthcare to all its citizens regardless of their ability to pay.
And yes, of course, in every country there are people who die prematurely because they did not have access, for whatever reason, to a level of care that could have prolonged their life. You would agree I think, that that alone, without qualification, is not what distinguishes access in the U.S. versus all other developed countries.
But the U.S. already does offer a basic level of healthcare to all citizens regardless of money, you might not get the best healthcare if you dont have money, but they arent going to make you die in the street if you come into the emergency room with a bullet wound.
So now all you are doing is arguing about Degree, you think that the degree of healthcare people get should be totally random, and that people who are responsible their whole life should have a lower degree of healthcare in order to pay for people who were mostly irresponsible get the same coverage. I fail to understand how it is more noble to hurt people who were responsible, people who put away money for healthcare, in order to pay for those who didnt.
So now all you are doing is arguing about Degree, you think that the degree of healthcare people get should be totally random, and that people who are responsible their whole life should have a lower degree of healthcare in order to pay for people who were mostly irresponsible get the same coverage. I fail to understand how it is more noble to hurt people who were responsible, people who put away money for healthcare, in order to pay for those who didnt.