Should school kids be issued guns in America?

[Bugenhagen]

Eh, weak excuse to brush away 4 dead. The argument can be had whether to charge him as an adult and give him life in prison right off the bat. Or charge him as a minor and give him life in prison to start his sentence in juvie I supposed. The apprehension is likely due to the fact I've never seen life in prison sentences if tried as minors. Though I recall some 8 year old redhead that smashed some little girl's brain in with a rock.

I'm not making any excuse for him, I'm just describing reality, he is not an adult and his parents were the perfect storm of irresponsible. The one thing in a long time the right seem to agree with, for now until their minds are changed for them.

Charging him as an adult is not justice, it's base vengeance. When I was a wildlife ranger I was always very lenient to anyone under around 24 when others would have just shot them with a clear conscience. I guess it's my mostly Euro sensibilities upbringing.

Of course he may never be fit to be released but he needs to be treated as a psychiatric case like modern countries do, at least until he, as an adult, stabs another prisoner or whatever and gets a new charge.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

marital privilege will certainly be invoked but since the parents posted on social media and there are text messages the police recovered and the testimony of the school staff..... we odnt need the parents to even say shit.... they hung themselves with their own posts and text messages and the kids social media.

If I were a DA I would not even need the parents to open their mouths to "hang em" and no way a Defense attorney has them testify anyway.

their only defense is there is no legal obligation to secure the gun in MI that could lead to direct penalties and that they could never have imagined their kid would do this. But in order to plead that defense they will have to testify to it and they are the shittiest witnesses around given their social media history and text messages to their kid.

The parents are fucked because like all fucktards they display their fucktardedness in texts and social media which speak for themselves and no attorney would allow them to take the stand.

One of the simplest things that vastly increases the chances of the parents being convicted is that they were properly charged by the prosecutor. - duh.

It seems to be all the rage these days for prosecutors to respond to mobs and over charge with first degree intentional this and first degree intentional that and then have to backpeddle or lose ground in court.

Just charge them properly. And work the case.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

If I were a DA I would not even need the parents to open their mouths to "hang em" and no way a Defense attorney has them testify anyway.

I hear ya, but I don't actually know that to be true yet.

First of all, as I have said twice before, I don't accept yet that they will be tried together or at least that they will have same counsel. So as far as "no way" a defense attorney would have one of them testify anyway, I can easily see prosecution offering a better deal for one than the other in exchange for testimony. Not saying it will go that way. Just saying, I don't see it as a "no way" scenario.

 

[Cuddles]

I'm not making any excuse for him, I'm just describing reality, he is not an adult and his parents were the perfect storm of irresponsible. The one thing in a long time the right seem to agree with, for now until their minds are changed for them.

Charging him as an adult is not justice, it's base vengeance. When I was a wildlife ranger I was always very lenient to anyone under around 24 when others would have just shot them with a clear conscience. I guess it's my mostly Euro sensibilities upbringing.

Of course he may never be fit to be released but he needs to be treated as a psychiatric case like modern countries do, at least until he, as an adult, stabs another prisoner or whatever and gets a new charge.

We're not Scandinavia, I'm not sure we'll ever get there. Punitive vengeance carried by the state is justice in America

 

[UsualName]

Oh pooh. You are getting all your info from the media and trying to understand guns from a soy-boy, city-boy no knowledge perspective.

The notion that hollow point is somehow a recent military-application bullet only intended to kill people and never used in hunting is an absurd position that comes out of media scripts these days. Hollow points have been around and used in hunting for well over a hundred years.

The point remains the guns designed and available today are mostly combat weapons. We are not talking about hunting rifles, shotguns or revolvers. The weapons in circulation today are not the weapons that were available to you as a kid. Applying the same standards from 40 to 50 years ago is how we are in this mess today.

 

[Bugenhagen]

Commit an adult crime get charge as an adult..... the fact that he is 15 is not relevant for this kind of crime. I see no ethical dilemna in challenging a kid who killed four students and injured many others in a calm and cool and collected manner and terrorized an entire school.

This i not a juvie violation... this is real adult shit and he should die in prison.

BOLLOCKS in what I have to say to that.

He may die in prison, if he is a psychopath which is a physical condition for which there is no current way to fix the brain. Psychopaths can be identified by MRI scans.

I have dealt with, hunted and captured, child soldiers, some of whom were cannibals, actually worse as they were vivibals, literally cutting arms and popping eyeballs out of victims who watched them eat their roasted flesh and eyes as entrees. And then the sex stuff which can't be discussed here as necrophilia snuff is too much for sweet Cuddles. They wanted to be scary, the were. Eli Roth would have shit himself but the kids were themselves victims.

A lot of them are alive and normal people now. Most dead from HIV of course.

America is actually as degenerate as the backwards even for 3rd world places that made the child soldiers, just few, perhaps only me ill admit connect the dots between the killer kids and the just better dressed evil adults that brought the nightmare of them into reality thriving in America too.

Now, I'll have a nice cup of tea and let the wave of PTSD that brought back up subside.

 

[UsualName]

Commit an adult crime get charge as an adult..... the fact that he is 15 is not relevant for this kind of crime. I see no ethical dilemna in challenging a kid who killed four students and injured many others in a calm and cool and collected manner and terrorized an entire school.

This i not a juvie violation... this is real adult shit and he should die in prison.

They're all going down. I get I don’t have much company on the ethical case of the adult charge and I’m fine with that. But there is no “adult” crime.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

The point remains the guns designed and available today are mostly combat weapons. We are not talking about hunting rifles, shotguns or revolvers. The weapons in circulation today are not the weapons that were available to you as a kid. Applying the same standards from 40 to 50 years ago is how we are in this mess today.

No. And they most certainly were available 40-50 years ago in regard to basic capability and functioning of the handguns and rifles and cartridges. Some of them have been suped up to give a more assault type look to them and are marketed differently but they are basicly the same semi-auto functioning and not any more deadly than the previous versions. If the shooter adds in a larger magazine that supes them up but that was available long ago too. And legality varied from state to state.

You are taking us into a wider discussion but let's just use the Michigan shooter as an example.
He used a sig sauer with a 9mm cartridge. The 9mm semi-auto has its origens in the 9mm parabellum luger- since before WW1. that's 1 as in one.

Lots of the AR-15 are .223 caliber in a basic semi-auto which was available as varmint cartridge gun decades ago but did not have the military look to it until Nato adopted it. But functionally, it is still just a semi-auto with a .223. Some are 7.62 which is the equivalent of .308 in American caliber. The military such as the ruskies and nato who adopted that caliber gave them a more assault look and design but functionally they are the same as my .308 winchester semi although they may have a larger magazine. I have a semi-automatic .351 winchester which I have shot a lot of deer with. It used to be mounted in a WW1 airplane. Same basic set up as the modern rifles - semi-auto.

As I have said before, the problem is not the gun. Guns of those functions and capacities have long been available. The problem is that American society has collapsed and we are producing lower quality people and citizens,

 

[El OchoCinco]

BOLLOCKS in what I have to say to that.

He may die in prison, if he is a psychopath which is a physical condition for which there is no current way to fix the brain. Psychopaths can be identified by MRI scans.

I have dealt with, hunted and captured, child soldiers, some of whom were cannibals, actually worse as they were vivibals, literally cutting arms and popping eyeballs out of victims who watched them eat their roasted flesh and eyes as entrees. And then the sex stuff which can't be discussed here as necrophilia snuff is too much for sweet Cuddles. They wanted to be scary, the were. Eli Roth would have shit himself but the kids were themselves victims.

A lot of them are alive and normal people now. Most dead from HIV of course.

America is actually as degenerate as the backwards even for 3rd world places that made the child soldiers, just few, perhaps only me ill admit connect the dots between the killer kids and the just better dressed evil adults that brought the nightmare of them into reality thriving in America too.

Now, I'll have a nice cup of tea and let the wave of PTSD that brought back up subside.

This kid did not grow up in the jungle.. he had a nice suburban life with loving parents... so your example while scary is not relevant here.

He can get medical attention in prison where he will spend the rest of his life but trying him as an adult is just semantics. He does not beloing in juvie having nice lunches and outdoor time when those he killed are cold in a ground.

 

[El OchoCinco]

They're all going down. I get I don’t have much company on the ethical case of the adult charge and I’m fine with that. But there is no “adult” crime.

Why does adult charge bother you... just means stiffer penalities. A 15 yeard old knows not to go in a school and shoot it up and kill innocent people. So save me the developing brain and all that...

All it means is that the adult penalties will apply.

I have not heard one ounce of synmpathy for the 4 families who have an empty seat at their holiday table this year but a lot of boo hoo over a kid who shot up a school...

Go look up what being tried as an adult means...

BEING TRIED AS AN ADULT IS ONLY RELEVANT FOR THE PENALTIES HE IS SUBJECT TOO. TYou all agree he should go away for life so who gives a shit . He still gets the same due process and right to a trial.

Google what being tried as an adult means before your compassion overtakes reason .