Second account blown and conditioned to lose

Anothertrader1 said:
Yes, you are correct, I use naked charts and trade my "edge" when I see it. But, I don't let it play out because I do not trust my edge and at the same time being afraid to lose. Ofcourse I don't get to think about losing, when I am already losing and just accept as a fact that I will get stopped out. I have manually backtested a strategy in a vehicle which provided positive results (1 year of data/ 1 or 2 trades daily) because I can not mentally handle the stop loss required to utilize it.
Regarding your last sentence, it has been troubling my mind for a long time, that even though I consider myself having spent a lot of time in studying about the markets, it might not have been enough or spent my time in the wrong stuff. But even with more knowledge, the way I handle myself when in a position makes me think I will repeat the same sabotaging behavior.

I am 34 years old.
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you're taking the first step in the right direction. Trading is a system 2 activity, not a system 1. What this experience tells you is that you need to create space between your trading thesis and trading execution. I would spend some time to focus on developing and refining a legit strategy using a paper portfolio for some time.

It will take you a long time to train discipline (stopping yourself from doing something stupid) so creating impediments is key (such as a checklist or make someone else a gatekeeper for trades).
 
Anothertrader1 said:
Hello,

this is my first topic here, and sadly, it wont be a good one. I have been trading for the past 2.5 years and apart from a brief success period it has been nothing but struggle. Started with stocks and IBKR, then 1 year ago moved to futures (DAX, NQ, rarely YM) trading via CFD. Started with a very small account which I raised and nearly destroyed several times.

My common behavior was/is : Eat like a bird and shit like an elephant. As soon as I enter a trade, if the trade goes in my favor I will exit my position for merely a few points and so many times see the trades I were in developing into huge winners without me in them ofcourse. But I will always take the full hit in a loss. And this has been going on for so long. And this isnt even the worst part of it. I started revenge trading. If I got stopped out and saw a small retracement in my prior basis I would reenter my position with a new stop loss in place at the next support/resistance area, but also increasing my position size, or add to my position if the trade went in favor for 2 consecutive candles for example. This is clearly a sign of decline instead of improvement.

My first blowup was in November of 2022. I stopped trading for 3 months. I refinanced my account in February and started trading again. And this week, it happened, on Monday I had a moderate draw down day, then on Tuesday, traded the EU session profitably and during the NY session, one small loss started a downward spiral which ended with me obliterating the account.
I feel like I failed my wife and kids completely. I do not follow other people in trading, am not member of any discord or other groups, have read books on psychology ( Trading in the zone, Best loser wins, Trading beyond the matrix etc), none of it worked. A good friend of mine told me, even in the past, "if you can't fix your problems and are constantly afraid of your positions then quit".
But, I don't want to quit. Do I want to continue doing the same mistakes? Ofcourse I don't want to. But I don't seem to be able to stop myself or develop the discipline I desire.

Is this even achievable or am I simply conditioned to be a permanent net loser? Landing streaks of small winning days and one devastating day. Is there any light in the tunnel? I see that no matter how many books I read, videos I watch, conversations I have, when in the trenches the same mistakes are repeated over, and over.

Thanks for reading, and please, do not be too harsh, I am already more than harsh at myself as is.
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2.5 years is nothing. Less than 1% I would say succeed in less than 3 years or 5 years even so don't be too hard on yourself. If you are serious about trading, keep doing it. Go back to drawing board for a trading plan/system, go to demo. Once it's proven successful in demo, start in live trading in small small positions until it's consistently profitable then gradually gradually increase the trading positions.
 
Anothertrader1 said:
Hello,

this is my first topic here, and sadly, it wont be a good one. I have been trading for the past 2.5 years and apart from a brief success period it has been nothing but struggle. Started with stocks and IBKR, then 1 year ago moved to futures (DAX, NQ, rarely YM) trading via CFD. Started with a very small account which I raised and nearly destroyed several times.

My common behavior was/is : Eat like a bird and shit like an elephant. As soon as I enter a trade, if the trade goes in my favor I will exit my position for merely a few points and so many times see the trades I were in developing into huge winners without me in them ofcourse. But I will always take the full hit in a loss. And this has been going on for so long. And this isnt even the worst part of it. I started revenge trading. If I got stopped out and saw a small retracement in my prior basis I would reenter my position with a new stop loss in place at the next support/resistance area, but also increasing my position size, or add to my position if the trade went in favor for 2 consecutive candles for example. This is clearly a sign of decline instead of improvement.

My first blowup was in November of 2022. I stopped trading for 3 months. I refinanced my account in February and started trading again. And this week, it happened, on Monday I had a moderate draw down day, then on Tuesday, traded the EU session profitably and during the NY session, one small loss started a downward spiral which ended with me obliterating the account.
I feel like I failed my wife and kids completely. I do not follow other people in trading, am not member of any discord or other groups, have read books on psychology ( Trading in the zone, Best loser wins, Trading beyond the matrix etc), none of it worked. A good friend of mine told me, even in the past, "if you can't fix your problems and are constantly afraid of your positions then quit".
But, I don't want to quit. Do I want to continue doing the same mistakes? Ofcourse I don't want to. But I don't seem to be able to stop myself or develop the discipline I desire.

Is this even achievable or am I simply conditioned to be a permanent net loser? Landing streaks of small winning days and one devastating day. Is there any light in the tunnel? I see that no matter how many books I read, videos I watch, conversations I have, when in the trenches the same mistakes are repeated over, and over.

Thanks for reading, and please, do not be too harsh, I am already more than harsh at myself as is.
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%%
I ground down an account to $0 when i started short term trading single stocks; mostly not a good plan for me ; but proved what i knew= markets are not random.
I did , you did faaaaaaaaaar worse than random.
[2] I lose less + make more with ETFs including some cash ETFs, sometimes QLD,SPY,XLK.....
[3] Revenge trading is one of the best ways to blow up an account; many time the trend changed ,so that's adding much more to a wrongful bigger mistake.
4] Trading can be one of the toughest ways to make money in the 5 businesses I've have had.
5] Good thing i kept my cash metals business
6,7] Revenge trading with leverage maybe the fastest was to to blow up an account.
8 ] You can stop that or the market will stop you, eventually.
.Revenge trading=attempt to get rich quick. Hope this helps
 
How much did you lose in total?

The harsh truth that a new trader either doesn't know or doesn't believe (thinking he's special) is that 2.5 years is nothing in this game for a retail trader starting out on his own without a mentor or proper guidance. Only snake oil sellers, charlatans and want-to-be gurus on ET will tell you otherwise.

For someone trading professionally or with a profitable mentor it may be different, but still, there's no substitute for experience and 2.5 years is not much, really.

Anothertrader1 said:
My common behavior was/is : Eat like a bird and shit like an elephant. As soon as I enter a trade, if the trade goes in my favor I will exit my position for merely a few points and so many times see the trades I were in developing into huge winners without me in them ofcourse. But I will always take the full hit in a loss. And this has been going on for so long. And this isnt even the worst part of it. I started revenge trading. If I got stopped out and saw a small retracement in my prior basis I would reenter my position with a new stop loss in place at the next support/resistance area, but also increasing my position size, or add to my position if the trade went in favor for 2 consecutive candles for example. This is clearly a sign of decline instead of improvement.
More...

Good. So now you know your main problem.

Profitability is simply a matter of math where a positive expectancy determines if you make money or not. That's either a very high win rate (hard to achieve consistently) or outsized profits relative to losses.

From what you tell it seems like you have both a low win rate and small profits relative to losses. The result is a net loss.

What's uncertain is if it's because you don't trade your system/method (assuming you have one) correctly or if it is mental blocks that are causing it. I would assume it's a combination of not having a proper method and psychological issues as a result which again will compound your losses.

But, I don't want to quit. Do I want to continue doing the same mistakes? Ofcourse I don't want to. But I don't seem to be able to stop myself or develop the discipline I desire.

Is this even achievable or am I simply conditioned to be a permanent net loser? Landing streaks of small winning days and one devastating day. Is there any light in the tunnel? I see that no matter how many books I read, videos I watch, conversations I have, when in the trenches the same mistakes are repeated over, and over.

Thanks for reading, and please, do not be too harsh, I am already more than harsh at myself as is.
More...

The one thing you have 100% control over is that you can stop trading real money and stop losing money. If you enjoy the game and are prepared to keep going for years and know that it's likely to take you years, by all means keep going.

I've been in your shoes many times and in some ways I'm still there.

The main difference for me is that I learned to run my winners such that I usually get ahead if I'm on top of my game. However, what I've realized is that short term trading really is a very marginal game and it's only too easy to make mistakes. You really have to be on top of your game all the time.

If you have a shit day at work you're still paid. If you have a shit day as a trader you blew your account.

In summary, if you want to continue you can do so, but know that you likely have a long way to go still with no guarantees at the end of the road. If you keep going, stop live trading for now and focus on learning and improving. If I have one regret it is that I was impatient and didn't spend more time practicing in the simulator and lost too much money in the process.

PS: It's quite possible that swing trading may be easier than day trading, so maybe something to consider.

Best of luck either way.
 
  • Brevan Howard Grounds a Few Traders After Losses in Bond Rout
  • The macro hedge fund firm grounded at least three traders
  • Energy hedge fund Westbeck Capital has also hit loss limits
Brevan Howard Asset Management has grounded some of its traders to stem losses after the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank triggered wild moves in the bond market.

The macro hedge fund firm curtailed the betting of at least three money managers after they hit maximum loss levels, according to people with knowledge of the matter. The traders all specialized in rates trading, the people said, asking not to be identified because it’s private.
 
Anothertrader1 said:
because I can not mentally handle the stop loss required to utilize it.
More...
Which is more flawed:
the stop loss Required
or
the operater's execution skills?

If you decide to take this seriously, screenshot for your own possession and use each entry you have made going back at least your most recent dozen trades.
1) IF the operator had honored the stops to the letter, no sooner, no later, would the result have been profitable? This is valuable information to leave on the cutting room floor. Go analyze your performance "as done" rather than "as planned".

2) What other errors did you commit having to do with those particular entries and others that you should have taken but did not?
Enter too soon? Entered too late? Did not enter? Entered without the setup being triggered? Operator error entering or exiting the trade, (hit wrong button, set stop wrong, ...)
 
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Laissez Faire said:
How much did you lose in total?

The harsh truth that a new trader either doesn't know or doesn't believe (thinking he's special) is that 2.5 years is nothing in this game for a retail trader starting out on his own without a mentor or proper guidance. Only snake oil sellers, charlatans and want-to-be gurus on ET will tell you otherwise.

For someone trading professionally or with a profitable mentor it may be different, but still, there's no substitute for experience and 2.5 years is not much, really.



Good. So now you know your main problem.

Profitability is simply a matter of math where a positive expectancy determines if you make money or not. That's either a very high win rate (hard to achieve consistently) or outsized profits relative to losses.

From what you tell it seems like you have both a low win rate and small profits relative to losses. The result is a net loss.

What's uncertain is if it's because you don't trade your system/method (assuming you have one) correctly or if it is mental blocks that are causing it. I would assume it's a combination of not having a proper method and psychological issues as a result which again will compound your losses.



The one thing you have 100% control over is that you can stop trading real money and stop losing money. If you enjoy the game and are prepared to keep going for years and know that it's likely to take you years, by all means keep going.

I've been in your shoes many times and in some ways I'm still there.

The main difference for me is that I learned to run my winners such that I usually get ahead if I'm on top of my game. However, what I've realized is that short term trading really is a very marginal game and it's only too easy to make mistakes. You really have to be on top of your game all the time.

If you have a shit day at work you're still paid. If you have a shit day as a trader you blew your account.

In summary, if you want to continue you can do so, but know that you likely have a long way to go still with no guarantees at the end of the road. If you keep going, stop live trading for now and focus on learning and improving. If I have one regret it is that I was impatient and didn't spend more time practicing in the simulator and lost too much money in the process.

PS: It's quite possible that swing trading may be easier than day trading, so maybe something to consider.

Best of luck either way.
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Good Evening Laissez Faire,

Good write up
 
Anothertrader1 said:
Thanks for reading, and please, do not be too harsh, I am already more than harsh at myself as is.
More...

You need to move on. At your age, your greatest risk is opportunity loss. What further time you waste on trading can be much better spent in developing other, more marketable skills, that will serve you and your family into the future.

The issues you've experienced are not at all uncommon. But you need to know that the path from where you are now, to one of consistent profitability, can take years. Or more likely, never.
 
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