Russia & Ukraine

[UsualName]

You suggested it's not clear why Russia invaded. Russia invaded with a very clearly articulated reason. And it's not to rid Ukraine of Nazis whatever some underlings said. Putin always made clear that Ukraine joining the EU or Nato is a line crossed that cannot be tolerated. Same as with the US that clearly stated it won't allow Russia to infiltrate Cuba right across the US sovereign territory. Love it or loath it but that's not false pretense. That's a very clear articulation of what Russia can accept and what it cannot accept.

What I disagree with you is dumbing this down as if it's not a very complicated geopolitical conflict with wide ranging ramifications.

Excuse me again but I made no such suggestion but stated the facts. Putin gave a long winded imperialist speech rambling about America and nazis and nato and Ukraine being part of Russia and a whole bunch of other nonsense. Today it’s biolabs.

And I get if you start parsing it out and digging into it you might find it complicated but it all designed to persuade YOU and deflect from the fact that he invaded a peaceful and sovereign nation for selfish and imperialist reasons.

The Russians have lost Eastern Europe from a political perspective. The Eastern Europeans want to join with the west for safety and prosperity reasons. Russia simply cannot offer them anything more than being a vassal state subject of Russia.

If you want to parse out Putin and weigh all sides as equal have at it but it’s all bullshit. The former bloc states are choosing the western alliance and that is the threat to the Russians. It’s no missiles or armies it’s democracy and freedom. Blue jeans and rock and roll.

This is more than likely the last run of what is left of the old guard of the USSR.

 

[UsualName]

Then we fundamentally disagree. We should be in pursuit of the truth first and foremost always and everywhere. Not first and foremost life. Even the life of the individual is not worth more than the truth. Because when we water down truth and justify the truth for the preservation of Iives we can as well go packing as humanity. Our current lives reflect this. What's the point of living and trying to survive day by day when those who are supposedly put in power to be our civil servants actually abuse the rules, cheat, lie, apply nepotism, create their own laws and completely pervert the truth? It's turning into a shit life for the grand majority. That is why justicia is blindfolded. To not apply the law depending on the life of the individual but in total and utter pursuit of the truth.

Yeah ok, tell that to the Ukrainians getting bombed day and night. There’s no truth if you’re dead.

 

[terr]

You might want to note that the person you are calling out for having a March join date is responding to someone with a February join date (who you are fine with).

February 2000.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Yeah ok, tell that to the Ukrainians getting bombed day and night. There’s no truth if you’re dead.

Right, but we're not there. We're observing. And as such, you don't agree that truth should be very important?

 

[Tsing Tao]

February 2000.

LOL! Now don't I feel sheepish.

Impressive that you've only managed 3 posts a month for 22 years. That's some restraint!

Thanks for setting me straight.

 

[gwb-trading]

Then you misinterpreted Putin's intent. This is about the maximum EU expansion and eastern borders and Nato, nothing else. The only reason Ukraine does not give in to those demands is because it still has its hopes up that it can join the EU in the future. This is completely against any of the EU's interest in every conceivable way. Why now this dumb Italian prime Minister says otherwise and in complete contradiction what the EU already decided and clearly articulated is beyond everyone's comprehension.

Then you have no explanation for Putin’s lengthy list of demands (or should I say ultimatums).

If this is solely about joining NATO and the EU then why doesn’t Putin state this as his sole requirement then leave.

Let me give you a hint — it is not his sole demand. But now that Russia is losing Putin is trying to have his propagandist reframe it as his “sole condition” so he can save face when he is forced to withdraw.

 

[UsualName]

Right, but we're not there. We're observing. And as such, you don't agree that truth should be very important?

I think what is paramount is getting Russia to stop killing Ukrainians. Russia committed the original sin here and Ukraine is the victim. Murdering someone is wrong but murdering someone in self defense is not. Ukraine using propaganda in pursuit of getting Russia to stop killing Ukrainians is A ok.

As far as us getting to the truth, that’s the truth. Those video montages and patriotic messages serve Ukrainian defense and Ukraine is right to defend itself.

Russias propaganda serves their murderous, imperialist offense and they are wrong for it.

What we pursue is different. I do not believe in the ghost of Kyiv but I also know it serves a purpose. It gives people under attack hope and I am ok with that.

 

[wilburbear]

Whoever betrays Putin first, will have the most power in the new Russia.

The Oligarchs will come to realize this. Then it will be a race.

#BetrayPutin

 

[Nobert]

 

[Tsing Tao]

I think what is paramount is getting Russia to stop killing Ukrainians. Russia committed the original sin here and Ukraine is the victim. Murdering someone is wrong but murdering someone in self defense is not. Ukraine using propaganda in pursuit of getting Russia to stop killing Ukrainians is A ok.

As far as us getting to the truth, that’s the truth. Those video montages and patriotic messages serve Ukrainian defense and Ukraine is right to defend itself.

Russias propaganda serves their murderous, imperialist offense and they are wrong for it.

What we pursue is different. I do not believe in the ghost of Kyiv but I also know it serves a purpose. It gives people under attack hope and I am ok with that.

Well, its not really murder if its in self defense, but I get your point.

The video montages aren't the problem. Its saying things that aren't true to elicit a particular response. As such, truth needs to be paramount - especially in times of high propaganda.

Its ok, we don't have to agree. I respect your opinion.