Regarding the Existence or Absence of God

[daniel_m]

Originally posted by I Missed Boat


Axeman, but in the past we've had religious discussions (such as in the one from March that was quoted in the beginning of this thread) where darkhorse WAS respectful, reasonable and rational! No he turned into what sounds like a hateful and dangerous man with a complex! Again I ask, what the hell happened? Did he forget to take his crazy pills?

Yeah, I know. I've been one of dark's main antagonists in the past and for the most part he maintained a respectful disposition (unlike me!). Yet this response was pretty scary.
He may not think so, but I genuinely like dark, and actually agree with him on most things (other than religion). I'd hate to think he's gone around the bend.

 

[axeman]

Darks reaction does make a point I like to
make with religious people though.


Gods law is always "Above" human law, and when
you harbor such intolerance to others beliefs
we KNOW what happens.

They never blame the bloodshed associated with
relgion ON religion. They claim its always the
extremists etc etc... But I think its PRECISELY the
intolerant wiring of religious belief which is the probable
cause of said bloodshed.

Its funny when, like thunderbolt, they claim that they
would be out of control violent people without their
religion..... but the opposite seems true historically.
The more religious an area, the more bloodshed.

After all, some bibles DO say to kill infidels, and to
stone non-believers to death.

I wonder if Dark would throw rocks at me if we
ever met. Like a good christian is supposed too.


axeman

Originally posted by daniel_m


Yeah, I know. I've been one of dark's main antagonists in the past and for the most part he maintained a respectful disposition (unlike me!). Yet this response was pretty scary.
He may not think so, but I genuinely like dark, and actually agree with him on most things (other than religion). I'd hate to think he's gone around the bend.

 

[thunderbolt]

Axeman wrote: >Complex things cant happen by accident,
therefore there must be a creator.
But your creator is REALLY complex.
So who created your creator? (Your own logic)
Ooooops now you have a problem.<

The bible reads: It is impossible to please God without faith. I have faith in him so I need not know all the answers or else I would be on the same level as God. Satan wanted that very thing--to be God. That's why he was thrown out of heaven and wonders the earth looking to destroy because he knows his days are number. Once again, I don't know everything, you don't everything, no one knows everything accept God and any one else who has been given that power from God. The problem with people like yourselves is you all feel this need to have to know everything. That lacks humility which is a fundamental part of Christianity. Jesus came to earth in a very humble way--yet he was God in the flesh. He ALLOWED men to mock him and to put him to death as a sacrifice so you and I might be saved from damnation. He without sin died for our sins. Think REAL hard on that. That's the greatest gift of all. Take the time to research his life and his teachings and you will truly be inspired.

 

[daniel_m]

Originally posted by axeman


Its funny when, like thunderbolt, they claim that they
would be out of control violent people without their
religion..... but the opposite seems true historically.
The more religious an area, the more bloodshed.

spot on. the history of mass-murder and the history of religion are inextricably linked.
your comment beautifully illustrates the differences between theory and the 'real world'.
Governments everywhere used to think that the key to prosperity lay in the State taking control of industry (and more)...yet the real world has proven conclusively that the nations with freer markets enjoy the highest standards of living.
Religionists mistakenly THINK that a lack of religion leads to lawlessness and anarchy...however history, as axeman says, points out that there is a high corrolation between faith and bloodshed.

 

[daniel_m]

Originally posted by thunderbolt
Jesus came to earth in a very humble way--yet he was God in the flesh. He ALLOWED men to mock him and to put him to death as a sacrifice so you and I might be saved from damnation. He without sin died for our sins. Think REAL hard on that. That's the greatest gift of all. Take the time to research his life and his teachings and you will truly be inspired.

I think YOU, sir, are the one that needs to think REAL HARD. And more than that, learn to face facts. The story of jesus was around for HUNDREDS OF YEARS before he was supposed to have lived, only they didn't call him jesus, they called him other names. Again, don't you find it disturbing that there is no extra-biblical evidence that supports the idea that a man called jesus actually ever lived?
Take your own advice and research his life - you'll find he never had one.

BTW, I'll go toe-toe with you on the 'teachings' of jesus. He had no original material, he just copied things that other people had already said.(obviously -since he never existed! ) Hardly insipirational. The only context that any of the crap jesus talked makes sense in was that the world was gonna end real soon and the 'kingdom of god' would be coming, so you'd better repent. THAT is what he was all about.
Yet, 2000 years later, the world is still kicking..in fact it's going better than ever.

 

[axeman]

Thunderbolt,

Quoting from a book we consider mytholody as much
as greek mythology will get you no where.
You must first rationally prove that said book
is factual. Until then, it is pointless.


"no one knows everything accept God "

Any empty assertion. Bzzzzzt.

"The problem with people like yourselves is you all feel this need to have to know everything. "

Not true. I have no need to know everything. Bzzzzzt.
But I DO require proof for belief.
Shouldnt you? Without proof, you would be muslem,
if born in a muslem world, making your religion arbitrary.

"Jesus came to earth in a very humble way--yet he was God in the flesh. He ALLOWED men to mock him and to put him to death as a sacrifice so you and I might be saved from damnation. He without sin died for our sins. Think REAL hard on that. That's the greatest gift of all."


As far as im concerned, this is the same as greek mythology.
There is no need to think hard on it.

Show that it is fact, then I will invest the time to think
hard on it.


axeman

Originally posted by thunderbolt
Axeman wrote: >Complex things cant happen by accident,
therefore there must be a creator.
But your creator is REALLY complex.
So who created your creator? (Your own logic)
Ooooops now you have a problem.<

The bible reads: It is impossible to please God without faith. I have faith in him so I need not know all the answers or else I would be on the same level as God. Satan wanted that very thing--to be God. That's why he was thrown out of heaven and wonders the earth looking to destroy because he knows his days are number. Once again, I don't know everything, you don't everything, no one knows everything accept God and any one else who has been given that power from God. The problem with people like yourselves is you all feel this need to have to know everything. That lacks humility which is a fundamental part of Christianity. Jesus came to earth in a very humble way--yet he was God in the flesh. He ALLOWED men to mock him and to put him to death as a sacrifice so you and I might be saved from damnation. He without sin died for our sins. Think REAL hard on that. That's the greatest gift of all. Take the time to research his life and his teachings and you will truly be inspired.

 

[StockApprentice]

Originally posted by thunderbolt
Axeman wrote: >Complex things cant happen by accident,
therefore there must be a creator.
But your creator is REALLY complex.
So who created your creator? (Your own logic)
Ooooops now you have a problem.<

The bible reads: It is impossible to please God without faith. I have faith in him so I need not know all the answers or else I would be on the same level as God. Satan wanted that very thing--to be God. That's why he was thrown out of heaven and wonders the earth looking to destroy because he knows his days are number. Once again, I don't know everything, you don't everything, no one knows everything accept God and any one else who has been given that power from God. The problem with people like yourselves is you all feel this need to have to know everything. That lacks humility which is a fundamental part of Christianity. Jesus came to earth in a very humble way--yet he was God in the flesh. He ALLOWED men to mock him and to put him to death as a sacrifice so you and I might be saved from damnation. He without sin died for our sins. Think REAL hard on that. That's the greatest gift of all. Take the time to research his life and his teachings and you will truly be inspired.

I would have to agree. Humility is something we ALL must learn...this includes everyone including many Chrisitans who are yet weak in their understanding/wisdom. So many people fail to realize that they are finite...which means, among other things, that no matter how much thought one puts into a conclusion he may (not to mention probably) still be wrong.

 

[axeman]

I agree with Humility.
But humility is NOT what we are debating here.


Im still waiting for someone to respond to my question.

Why does complexity require a creator when your
complex creator does not? Hmmmmmmm?


The humility response was just an attempt to
dodge the contradiction I pointed out.


axeman

Originally posted by StockApprentice


I would have to agree. Humility is something we ALL must learn...this includes everyone including many Chrisitans who are yet weak in their understanding/wisdom. So many people fail to realize that they are finite...which means, among other things, that no matter how much thought one puts into a conclusion he may (not to mention probably) still be wrong.

 

[thunderbolt]

Axeman wrote: >Gods law is always "Above" human law, and when
you harbor such intolerance to others beliefs
we KNOW what happens.

They never blame the bloodshed associated with
religion ON religion. They claim its always the
extremists etc etc... But I think its PRECISELY the
intolerant wiring of religious belief which is the probable
cause of said bloodshed.

Its funny when, like thunderbolt, they claim that they
would be out of control violent people without their
religion..... but the opposite seems true historically.
The more religious an area, the more bloodshed.<

I simply reply, his law is above man's law. When Jesus spoke, he spoke with authority. "I am the way" " I am the light" "When you see me you see the father" "No man sees the father except through me" . Yet he never drew the first sword. He never sled any blood. That's the true Christianity I speak of. He made the blind see, the cripple walk, the deaf hear and the sick well. Over 34 miracles and no other religion can say that about their leader. Not Buddha, not Mohammed--not even the scientologists.

 

[daniel_m]

Originally posted by axeman

Why does complexity require a creator when your
complex creator does not? Hmmmmmmm?

this usually ends up with an unintelligible god creating the universe via unintelligible means..

which, in turn, means that believing in god is as good as believing in nothing in particular..