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Rand Paul on racism in business...
- Thread starter OPTIONAL777
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Of course private businesses should be allowed to be racist. A private business is a private entity not a public one, it is up to the owners to do what they want as long as they don't infringe someone's rights, just like it is up to a homeowner who to let in their home, or a person to choose their friends. No one has an intrinsic right to be served by a private business.
Most countries around the world allow race discrimination amongst businesses - Russia, Japan, Dubai etc all have clubs that cater to specific ethnicities for example. I don't feel discriminated against because I can't go into Mecca or a Phillipino nightclub in Dubai or a Japanese-only brothel. If a neo-nazi or a black panther doesn't want me in his home or private members club, how on earth do I have any moral right to force entry?
Anyone saying otherwise is saying that people have no right of ownership over their own property, and that it is legitimate to assault people with armed violence in order to force them to become slaves to complete strangers. Violently enforced slavery is far worse than non-violent racism.
If individuals are not legally entitled to sell to who they want, then it is a small step until individuals are not legally entitled to be friends with or have sex with who they want. Someone who wants to outlaw business race-discrimination to customers has a very hard time explaining why they would not also outlaw only marrying or having sex with or being friends with people of your own race, or avoiding those things with one or more races.
It's important to distinguish between things that are unpleasant, such as being rude to people, being an asshole, being a racist, mocking fat people etc, and things that are actually crimes. Choosing who to do work for, befriend, or have sex with on the basis of arbitrary criteria such as race, looks, intelligence or other things they have no control over is discriminatory but it is not criminal.
Most countries around the world allow race discrimination amongst businesses - Russia, Japan, Dubai etc all have clubs that cater to specific ethnicities for example. I don't feel discriminated against because I can't go into Mecca or a Phillipino nightclub in Dubai or a Japanese-only brothel. If a neo-nazi or a black panther doesn't want me in his home or private members club, how on earth do I have any moral right to force entry?
Anyone saying otherwise is saying that people have no right of ownership over their own property, and that it is legitimate to assault people with armed violence in order to force them to become slaves to complete strangers. Violently enforced slavery is far worse than non-violent racism.
If individuals are not legally entitled to sell to who they want, then it is a small step until individuals are not legally entitled to be friends with or have sex with who they want. Someone who wants to outlaw business race-discrimination to customers has a very hard time explaining why they would not also outlaw only marrying or having sex with or being friends with people of your own race, or avoiding those things with one or more races.
It's important to distinguish between things that are unpleasant, such as being rude to people, being an asshole, being a racist, mocking fat people etc, and things that are actually crimes. Choosing who to do work for, befriend, or have sex with on the basis of arbitrary criteria such as race, looks, intelligence or other things they have no control over is discriminatory but it is not criminal.
Exactly. No one has a moral right to force private entities to serve them or a moral right to force entry to their privately owned property. It's PRIVATE
Quote from Ghost of Cutten:
Of course private businesses should be allowed to be racist. A private business is a private entity not a public one, it is up to the owners to do what they want as long as they don't infringe someone's rights, just like it is up to a homeowner who to let in their home, or a person to choose their friends. No one has an intrinsic right to be served by a private business.
Most countries around the world allow race discrimination amongst businesses - Russia, Japan, Dubai etc all have clubs that cater to specific ethnicities for example. I don't feel discriminated against because I can't go into Mecca or a Phillipino nightclub in Dubai or a Japanese-only brothel. If a neo-nazi or a black panther doesn't want me in his home or private members club, how on earth do I have any moral right to force entry?
Anyone saying otherwise is saying that people have no right of ownership over their own property, and that it is legitimate to assault people with armed violence in order to force them to become slaves to complete strangers. Violently enforced slavery is far worse than non-violent racism.
If individuals are not legally entitled to sell to who they want, then it is a small step until individuals are not legally entitled to be friends with or have sex with who they want. Someone who wants to outlaw business race-discrimination to customers has a very hard time explaining why they would not also outlaw only marrying or having sex with or being friends with people of your own race, or avoiding those things with one or more races.
Quote from phenomena:
Exactly. No one has a moral right to force private entities to serve them or a moral right to force entry to their privately owned property. It's PRIVATE
Your idea of what is moral doesn't matter. The law of the land is already estabilished and the mind set of Americans is by far in agreement with the current law. People of your like thinking are in the minority. The Republian party is wrong in so many ways but this KKK wing of the party is below even them.
Hello I think you're a nice guy. Look at old photos on the web of what the south was like and how black people were treated, don't think politics or business rights when you look at the photos, think about what is right.
PatternRec
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Quote from bigarrow:
Your idea of what is moral doesn't matter. The law of the land is already estabilished and the mind set of Americans is by far in agreement with the current law. People of your like thinking are in the minority. The Republian party is wrong in so many ways but this KKK wing of the party is below even them.
Hello I think you're a nice guy. Look at old photos on the web of what the south was like and how black people were treated, don't think politics or business rights when you look at the photos, think about what is right.
I think what is being missed is the difference between implicit and explicit discrimination. Explicit discrimination is against the law and rightfully so. Implicit isn't and shouldn't ever be.
Putting a sign out front that says "No blacks" is an example of explicit discrimination.
Starting a hair salon with pictures of white women with different hair styles is an example of implicit discrimination. While a Black woman can walk in there, it would be pointless as the establishment is not equipt to deal with a Black woman's hair. That they had pictures of White women outside should be clue enough for a Black woman to not seek service there. Should the government force that business to properly cater to everyone? Or should the market do that?
This is something you don't want the government to regulate. The government's role is to protect its citizens. Not to dictate what kind of business they can run and who they must cater to. Public safety laws notwithstanding.
I disagree with Rand Paul's desire to remove government from protecting its citizens against explicit discrimination. But there has been increasing encroachment into private enterprise's right to implicit discrimination through activist litigation.
What I think is right or wrong is beside the point. The greater moral imperative here is the freedom to decide that for ourselves.
Quote from bigarrow:
Your idea of what is moral doesn't matter. The law of the land is already estabilished and the mind set of Americans is by far in agreement with the current law. People of your like thinking are in the minority. The Republian party is wrong in so many ways but this KKK wing of the party is below even them.
Hello I think you're a nice guy. Look at old photos on the web of what the south was like and how black people were treated, don't think politics or business rights when you look at the photos, think about what is right.