POLL: The repercussions of a US attack on Iraq

[rs7]

Quote from hapaboy:


So let me put it another way: Would it be unreasonable or discriminatory in any way if I start another thread specifically for Americans to discuss American viewpoints on the crisis with Iraq? I don't see how it could be, as Wild could simply start another threat titled, for example, "Wild's Viewpoints on the Iraq Crisis." Wouldn't that be fair?

Only problem I see here is how to define an "American".

Here is something most of us have probably seen circulating on the internet. But for those who haven't....or those that could use a reminder:


>You probably missed it in the rush of news in the last few weeks, but

>there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had

>published in a newspaper an offer of a reward to anyone who

>killed an American, any American.

>

>So an Australian dentist wrote the following to let everyone

>know what an American is, so they would know when they found

>one:

>

>An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German,

>Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be

>Swedish, Finnish, Danish, Norwegian, Canadian, Mexican,

>Brazilian, Peruvian, South African, Ethiopian, Somalian,

>Egyptian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian,

>Iranian, Arabian, Pakistani, or Afghan. An American may also

>be a Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or

>one of the many other tribes known as native Americans.

>

>An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist,

>or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in

>Afghanistan. The only difference is that in America they are

>free to worship as each of them chooses. An American is also

>free to believe in no religion or that there is no God. For

>these questions that he will answer only to God, or his own

>conscience, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming

>to speak for the government and for God.

>

>An American is from the most prosperous land in the history

>of the world. The root of that prosperity can be found in the

>Declaration of Independence, which recognizes the God-given

>right of each person to pursue happiness as he sees it.

>

>An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about

>every other nation in the world in their time of need. When

>Afghanistan was overrun by the Soviet army 20 years ago,

>Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to

>win back their country. As of the morning of September 11,

>Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in

>Afghanistan.

>

>Americans welcome the best, the best products, the best

>books, the best music, the best food, the best athletes. But

>they also welcome the least.

>

>The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty,

>welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of

>your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These in

>fact are the people who built America. Some of them were

>working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2002

>earning a better life for their families. I've been told that

>the World Trade Center victims were from at least 30 other

>countries, cultures, and first languages, including those

>that aided and abetted the terrorists.

>

>So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did.

>So did General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and every

>bloodthirsty tyrant in the history of the world. But, in

>doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because

>Americans are not a particular people from a particular

>place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of

>freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an

>American.



(There are many "Americans" who don't understand this too)

Peace,
rs7

 

[trader556]

KymarFye.... seen bul$hit written before with great command of the english language, but you take the cake. What the f%^k is all that mambo jumbo and scientific polls ???? you don't like the results?? TOUGH $HIT!!! You write and write and it's a pile o crap, max401 smells it, likes it ofc, cannyonman laughs, and stu hmmm (stu-teacher) well too explicit to state even for this thread.

for all the readers here, a POLL for ya

http://www.markfiore.com/animation/remember.html

Who's on First???

notice who's on the right and who's on the left

1. hapajerk and Daniela_Max?

2. Kymar Fye and maxine401?

3. cannyonman00 and stu?

4. direct_TM and Marlene?

4. all of the above?

You frigging dipsticks, try to read and learn!!!! You sit home cheering for death, destruction of the constitution, elimination of the AMERICAN FREEDOM and IDEALS and all my country used to stand for.!!! The 9/11 deaths mean nothing to you

What's wrong with you? $hit for brains head??? so filled with racism, bigotry, kill them all cause we can, screw life, screw principles, has made you blind !!!! brainwashed pinheads!!!

man o man so arrogant, self righteous, idiotic, morons, sit back and attack anyone that posts the truth and backs it up!!! truth hurts huh?? Suck it in fye or maxine beats you to it? errr...wait wait... don't leave hapajerk behind cause anything rightwing and he opens up mouth inserts garbage and inhales with a smile.

ok ok ok.... the poll will tell

Bloodsucking parasites, monkey's finger on the nuke button, patriot-homeland jail, you are destroying all the greatness we used to be. The true evildoers are walking amongst us

What are you doing to my country???

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from trader556:

errr...wait wait... don't leave hapajerk behind cause anything rightwing and he opens up mouth inserts garbage and inhales with a smile.

BURP....

I may be mistaken, but you seem a tad, um, irate.

 

[max401]

wild = Troll

 

[fairplay]

50 years? Nice work. Check in with us after 200 years of a working democracy.

Just a few questions from an overseas ignoramus:
* 200 years, eh? So democracy started in 1803? And not 27 years earlier? So the French beat you to it?
Keep up the good work, but get new batteries for your calculator

Here are the real questions:

* how many of those 200 years were spent on murdering the indigenous population?
* and how many years were spent on buying, importing and exploiting slaves from Africa and Asia as well as buying soldiers from Germany?
* when exactly did the US enter into the 2nd world war? Immediately after Germany invaded Poland? Or was it only after the attack on Pearl Harbour?
* and how long did it take the US to recognise that human rights also apply to Jewish and "non-white" citizens?
* and how long ago was Martin Luther King shot? Before or after those fifty years started counting?
* and when exactly was the My-Lai massacre and what happened to those gangsters who committed it?
* and when exactly was Saddam Hussein disgraced by the US? Really 250 years ago?

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from fairplay:



50 years? Nice work. Check in with us after 200 years of a working democracy.

Just a few questions from an overseas ignoramus:
* 200 years, eh? So democracy started in 1803? And not 27 years earlier? So the French beat you to it?
Keep up the good work, but get new batteries for your calculator

Here are the real questions:

* how many of those 200 years were spent on murdering the indigenous population?
* and how many years were spent on buying, importing and exploiting slaves from Africa and Asia as well as buying soldiers from Germany?
* when exactly did the US enter into the 2nd world war? Immediately after Germany invaded Poland? Or was it only after the attack on Pearl Harbour?
* and how long did it take the US to recognise that human rights also apply to Jewish and "non-white" citizens?
* and how long ago was Martin Luther King shot? Before or after those fifty years started counting?
* and when exactly was the My-Lai massacre and what happened to those gangsters who committed it?
* and when exactly was Saddam Hussein disgraced by the US? Really 250 years ago?

Well, if you want to be a sticker for details you are correct. My point was that the United States has one of the longest running and most stable constitutional based records of democracy, the total number of years was not really the point. If you want to focus on the exact time of freedom, start from July 4th 1776 official date of the Declaration of Independence, or perhaps September 17, 1987 is a better date, as that was the date the Constitutional Convention signed the final draft, or perhaps it was the ratification process....but what is the point?

America is an experiment, the United States of America is an experiment, and the longest running successful experiment in Democracy to date.

We have never had a King of the United states of America, never had a Dictator of the United States of America, never had a leader gain power though a military coup, etc.

Our leadership in the executive branch and the congressional branch are elected officials. The judicial branch are appointed by the executive branch, and then approved by the congressional branch.

Truly, the basis of our government and constitution are a model of success.

Now, is it perfect? Do we have events in our past to be ashamed of? Perhaps, perhaps we have learned and moved forward. Perhaps we have corrected our mistakes by admission of them.

America declared its independence from Britain, and fought a war to secure that independence.

Did Germany win a war of independence from the Nazis which led to adopting a democratic way of life?

Seems to me, that if it had not been for the efforts of the Yanks and the Brits, the german people on the whole were more than willing to go with the flow of Fascism and Nazism.

So I can't put them in the same category as Americans and our process to achieve freedom and democracy.

Perhaps the Germans have or will arrive at the same conclusions we did, but never forget that they were dragged goose stepping and kicking their way into freedom and democracy by their conquerors, not of their own volition of intentions.

In effect, we had to beat them into the Democratic way of life they now so proudly remind of us of.

We are happy that Germans have joined the ranks of freedom loving people, and we know they will be equally happy when the citizens of Iraq are allowed to join us and the rest of the free world once we eliminate Hussein and his dictatorial ways.

Germans, freedom loving, democratic Germans, of all people in this world should fully understand that. That we have a few leftist extremist who don't grok their own past, and continually post their nonsensical idead, who refuse to discuss the path Germany was forced to take to achieve the freedom they now enjoy...well, what can I say?

 

[wild]

America has a 18th century constitution ...

America has a 19th century set of "ethic standards" ...

America has a 20th century imperialism ...

America has a 21st century weaponry ...

Germany hasn´t ... thank god

regards

wild


The Biggest Threat To Peace
Which country really poses the greatest danger to world peace in 2003?
TIME asks for readers' views

updated poll results at http://www.time.com/time/europe/gdml/peace2003.html

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from wild:

America has a 18th century constitution ...

America has a 19th century set of "ethic standards" ...

America has a 20th century imperialism ...

America has a 21st century weaponry ...

Germany hasn´t ... thank god

regards

wild

Yes, we thank God daily that Germany doesn't have the weapons of mass destruction that they have proven over the past 80 or more years that they are not emotionally and mentally equipped to handle.

We thank God that the USA and the west was able to secure the most advanced weaponry, as we can only imagine what would have had happend if the Kaiser or Hitler had secured them first.

 

[fairplay]

Quote from wild:

America has a 18th century constitution ...

America has a 19th century set of "ethic standards" ...

America has a 20th century imperialism ...

America has a 21st century weaponry ...

Germany hasn´t ... thank god

regards

wild

Mr Wild,

since so many people here seem to be going after you because of your insistence on having the last word, may I ask you to let me/us know:
* did Germany not have some sort of a constitution in the 18th century?
* and is today's constitution really a truly 21st century one?
* what were the sets of ethic standards in the 19th century?
* was Germany not also an imperialist nation in the 20th century?
* What about those colonies in Africa, China and New Guinea?
* are the German army's weapons obsolete and not up to 21st century standard?

I am very much interested in Germany and its history and culture, and because of you I have now almost completely stopped listening to Voice of America, BBC and Radio Australia and whenever possible listen to the Indonesian service of Duetche Welle, which I find much more interesting and inspiring. My cousin's youngest son studies in Germany and he tells me all sorts of wonderful things about your beautiful country.

 

[traderfut2000]

Rs7,

I also like you and appreciate you, even if we don't think the same. You belive that palestinian (people that lived in palestine before the jews arrived) never existed and this is not true.

You keep on saying that arabs attacked srael and you forgot what the jews did to the arabs in order to provoke this war.

You keep on saying that Arabs do not want peace and yet it is Israel that kills 10 times more people than what "even" the Hamas "terrorists" killed in Israel. It is Israel that builks colonies of a few thousands jewish settlers in places where you have hundreds of thousands palestinians living in poverty.

Israel is the country that violated all the UN resolutions and that is the most armed country of the region. 30% of the total foreign aid of the USA goes to Israel.

Saying that Arafat is the cause of terrorism is the biggest bullshit I have ever heard in my life. You can ask your army to bomb a village, but nobody can prevent someone to explode himself.

The first one is the result of hatred , the second of despair.

The Israeli soldiers that refused to serve Tsahal are heroes for me. They could be compared to people like Schindler that refuded to serve the Nazi regim adn yes for me ISrael is a fascist regim.


Now, as I told you a thousand times, I have the greatest respect for jews, some good friends are jews, my girlfriend has jewish origins and some of the greatest brains from which I learned a lot are jewish.

Shalom


TF

Quote from rs7:



Well O777, looks like your point went unheeded. Very next post was, you guessed it, another paste job.

Can it ever be made clear to these guys that NOBODY wants to read this stuff? If we did, we all know how to find it on our own.

Certainly don't need to use ET as a place in which to replicate political publications from whatever sources.

I would always rather hear a lame argument in someone's own words than a great argument from a source scrounged from the endless supply of slanted journalism so easily found on the web.

There are talented writers on both sides of any issue. And the statistics that get used are laughable in the case of what Traderfut keeps on hammering us with. The Israelis murder innocent children. They are modern nazis, war criminals, etc., etc.

I like Traderfut....he is bright and I think he is sincere in his desire for peace. But I have an enormous problem understanding how he can have such a closed mind. Why he cannot answer the simplest questions.


Some of the "statistics" are so far from reality that it is scary. Some are right up there with Holocaust denial.

Really poor arguments. Just because someone can express themselves in writing, and can get published in some anti-whatever journal does not qualify them to be quoted.

If you believe everything you read, you become dangerous.

Traderfut....once again, I ask: What was the sole objective of the Arab/Israeli war in 1948? Answer this and you will make me a happy guy. 'Cause I have asked you so many times, and NEVER ONCE got an answer. Is it too embarrassing to answer? (I will accept the answer to also apply to the wars started by the Arab nations against Israel in 1956, 1967, and 1973....they all had the same single objective). Maybe going 0-4 is disheartening. But think football. There are comebacks. You don't have to kill yourself (or have your kids kill themselves) just because you have a losing record!

Peace,
rs7