POLL: The repercussions of a US attack on Iraq
- Thread starter candletrader
- Start date
You have publicly declared your acceptance in being classed as a Nazi, therefor it's not me who you are declaring it to, obviously you aren't bothered who knows as long as you can hide behind the anonymity afforded by a free Country like America. Watch out for the Deutsch cyberPolizei on your side.
That kind of statement, especially from someone who says he is German (though you may be a German immigrant - perhaps of extremist islamic origins), is quite simply reprehensible. Anything you say or post is shadowed by that.
Constantly trying to shift focus with your disconnected responses falls flat.
Had I been alive during the last war, I certainly would have been pro war and against Germany.
Sad but true. While on our imperialistic and capitalist adventure to secure all that oil for our own selfish needs, we got sidetracked.
The great environmentalist, Mr. Saddam Insane, acting like a 4 year old who was kicked out of his game of hopscotch decided to punish the other kids by setting their toys on fire.
So the other kids got distracted, and had to spend all their time trying to put out the fires rather than play at taking the spoils of "who stole the bacon".
Fortunately, as always, the Polish armed forces came up with the solution. But by then, the great big bullies from the US had grown tired of the game, and, as Max said, just simply forgot to take what they came for.
We are indeed a society of dummies. Next time, I am sure the generals will have better lists so they don't forget. Now they all have Palm Pilots, so it is less likely that their lists will get lost in the laundry like last time. They check their pockets much more carefully these days before sending their trousers to the cleaners.
Peace,
And FUCK the American Nazi Party!!
Rs7
I would never have known about the website of the American Nazi Party's if not for Wild. Something I would not search for. Gee, thanks Wild.
Growing up in the 60's, there were many fringe element "societies" that no longer exist and some that do. It was fashionable in youth to try on their extremist views, but as life has its habit, maturation brings the ability to see more than one point of view.
The SDS, SLA, Black Panthers, John Birch Society, the KKK, etc. are/were all just minor factions that appeal to a small segment of our society.
Fortunately, we live in a country that allows such "societies" to exist and meet the needs of those who want to play out their fascist or ultra liberal tendencies. Kind of like nudist colonies. They exist because some people want them, but it is a minority of the population that participates in them.
If those who have those extremist tendencies are required to suppress them out of fear of punishment, they have the potential to become very dangerous, and a Ted Kaczynsky or Timothy McVeigh is a possible outcome due their sense of isolation and having no one to play cards with. They then exist in their own twisted world only, and an extremist living in their own world is a dangers mixture indeed.
That they exist doesn't mean they are representative of the society as a whole, and I pay them little to no attention until such time that they begin to seriously impact mainstream thought or mainstream society.
I believe Wild is a potentially dangerous man/woman/hermaphrodite (who knows) in that he is an unyielding extremist in his views and he practices internet isolation with his copy and paste approach to argumentation. He seems unwilling to engage in normal conversations or have debates on important issues based on his own life. He sees neither black or white, only one shade of gray (perhaps Nazi gray) that comes from a steady but dimly lit environment. People like this are dangerous as their intolerance of other points of view and unwillingness to discuss the issues based on their own life experiences and own thought process make them nothing but foot soldiers for whatever cause they sell themselves to.
Quote from fairplay:
Could you please repeat that in plain simple English so that "gooks" like me and other iliterates like Mr Wild can also understand?
Fairplay, how interesting that you keep referring to yourself as a "gook" while noone here labels you one. I guess you could "care less" about being called one, just like your idol Wild could care less about being called a Nazi.
You are both pathetic and devoid of any self-respect.
Interesting that these sites can exist here in the US. Perfectly legal. Protected under our freedom of speech.
When I first met my wife, she worked for the Anti Defamation League (has since left, but is still kept up to date on what goes on, and so I am also to a great degree because we still get their daily e-mails and there is plenty going on all the time). I really had no idea exactly how they conducted their "business" at the time I met her. I did not know much about the ADL at all. But I subsequently went to many fundraising functions, heard a lot of speeches, and even attended a couple of seminars.
So here is a civil rights group that has been around for almost 100 years. But now, with the internet, their job has gotten that much more difficult, and perhaps more important.
While the hate groups have all the rights of free speech, they are, as we would expect, potentially dangerous to society. So groups like the ADL serve to monitor these kinds of web sites (like Wild's posted Nazi site). The FBI is, of course, always interested in monitoring these sites (as well as the sites of many other hate groups). But the FBI can't really do much about them. No one can. All they can do is monitor these sites and look for danger signs.
The ADL is effective at deciphering the "between the lines" poison of such sites. Same with other civil rights groups, like the NAACP. And they give their interpretations to the FBI. And the CIA. As a matter of fact, it is now a part of FBI and CIA training to go through courses in understanding hate crimes (and the mentality of the members of these hate groups) and their motivations. These courses are designed and often conducted by the ADL. Same is true with many of Americas police academies. I heard a speech not long ago by the chief of the Philadelphia Police Department given to raise money from a group of affluent Jews to support ADL. Big fan of the ADL. And their training (and he is either Italian or Irish, I have forgotten).
Hate Crimes bills are crafted with input from the ADL and other civil rights groups. And civil rights lawyers from around the county. As I mentioned before, my wife was involved in drafting the Florida laws. (she is a lawyer, so they ran a lot of stuff by her....but this is not really her field of expertise). She is not knowledgeable in the how's or why's of the thinking of the monsters that perpetrate hate crimes. So she was only sort of a "proofreader" of the legislation as it was being drafted. She says she finds the thought processes of the haters incomprehensible, so she had essentially no input as to the actual content of the laws. Just the wording. But fortunately, there are enough people that DO understand the sick thought processes of the Haters. And the laws do address their thinking. Abraham Foxman, who is the leader of the ADL is a concentration camp survivor. It is sad that it takes victims to really understand the true dangers of such hatred. And Abe won't be around forever. But hate will, and so will victims of it. So there will always be new candidates to fill his shoes. In Israel every day there is death and destruction caused by bigotry, racism, and blind hatred.
While my feelings are probably stronger now than they were before I understood what was going on with the proliferation of the hate group web sites, I am less and less shocked when I see them.
As Optional said, there are always fringe elements of crazies and they will always speak loudly to get attention. Fortunately, they are not representative of our society as a whole.
What is scary, is that so much of the hatred preached against the US is possible only because of all our freedoms. The neo-nazis, the Islamic Jihad maniacs, all of them are protected by the very government they wish to overthrow. (Ours).
Imagine the chances of setting up an anti government web site in Saudi Arabia. Or Syria. Or any of the breeding grounds of hatred and terrorism. Iraq? Get shot for not voting for the candidate of THEIR choice.
So we get to hear the twisted views of Wild and his kind. And he has the right to say what he wants. And we have the right to listen (read), or ignore.
So while those who express their disdain for America can only do so because of the freedoms they are granted, they, in essence, are proving themselves to be totally hypocritical. They wail on the US, but get to do it only because of the freedom we give them.
So as "evil" as they want to paint the US, they can never be taken seriously. They can say whatever they want, but it is all so meaningless. Because the whole concept of our freedom of speech is exactly what enables them to do what they do. Express their (actually, in the cut an paste jobs, someone else's) opinions.
But, rest assured that more and more hate crimes legislation is being crafted every day. And the criminal misuse of "freedom" will not be tolerated. You can say virtually anything in this country. But deeds are another thing. So here, as seems to be universal, the loudest mouthed anti-Americans are the biggest cowards. They hide behind OUR system of freedom and make a lot of noise. But fortunately they are being monitored. And the dangerous leaders are known. We HAVE learned lessons from Oklahoma City and from 9/11.
The sad part of all this is that we are now seemingly losing some of our freedoms (under the pretense of national security) because of the dangers posed by our "enemies". Which is really a shame. But, it is, IMO a necessary step. I for one don't like giving up ANY freedoms. But the potential costs of not being vigilant is too high. So while many ET members may think I am too much of a "liberal", I reluctantly endorse measures I think are against our way of life. But it becomes a matter of what is really more important. Is my right to wander the concourses of the airport important enough to hold onto to make the movements of terrorists that much easier? No. It is not. It is an inconvenience to me, but I accept that this kind of inconvenience is a small (but annoying) price of dealing with an enemy we must defeat. Certainly less of an inconvenience than being dead.
The ACLU stands guard on behalf of freedom for us all. So often, the ACLU and the ADL (or NAACP, or other civil rights groups) will find themselves on opposite sides of an issue (i.e.: the right of nazis to march and demonstrate). This is what America is about. The freedom to peacefully express any view, and the freedom to debate any view.
This is why I said (regarding Babaks comment on limiting cut and pastes) that I thought Wild should be allowed to continue his relentless anti American propaganda. It is a waste of everyone's time, and a waste of space on the servers. But it is also his right. And the very act of his expressing his anti American views here serves to defeat his own arguments. So let him continue to rant. He serves to defeat his arguments better than any of us ever could. Same goes for any of these Freedom Haters.
Let them say whatever they please. Just so long as they are aware that we can tolerate their words of hatred and bigotry. But we will NOT tolerate any actions that affect our freedoms. Or endanger our way of life. So Wild, like all the loudmouthed cowards hide behind OUR system of freedom. But he better not come out and act on his anti American, anti social, and anti civilized beliefs.
Ever heard of Tom Metzger? He is proof that you can say whatever you want. But "Never Again" is a slogan that has teeth.
Talk all you want. But don't screw with us!
Peace,
Rs7Quote from hapaboy
Fairplay, how interesting that you keep referring to yourself as a "gook" while noone here labels you one. I guess you could "care less" about being called one, just like your idol Wild could care less about being called a Nazi.
You are both pathetic and devoid of any self-respect.
hi fairplay,
do you understand what that American "labeling" business is all about ... to my knowledge "gook" is a respected Korean name, isn´t it?
how could anyone possibly "label" me a "Nazi" ... since tout le monde knows that i´m anything but American?
best regards
wild
btw: here´s another tricky piece of the German "language landscape" ... Friesisch:
Frisian
Frisian is a Germanic language, endangered and divided in three dialects, located in non-contiguous territories in Holland and Germany. Those are: Western Frisian in the Netherlands, and Eastern Frisian and Northern Frisian in Germany. Frysk is the native name in Western Frisian, the only variety with a developed literary standard.
Frysk
Frisiera hizkuntza Germaniarra da, eta arriskuan dago. Hiru dialekto bereizten dira, hizkuntzan eta geografian, ukipenik gabeko hiru lurraldetan mintzatzen baitira: Mendebaldeko Frisiera Holandan, eta Alemanian Ekialdeko Frisiera eta Iparraldeko Frisiera. Mendebaldeko Frisierak soilik garatu du estandar idatzi bat, eta hartan hizkuntzari Frysk esaten zaio.
...
North Frisia
The North Frisians live in the German-Danish western coastal border area of Schleswig north of Husum and adjacent islands of Föhr, Amrum, Sylt, Helgoland, and the Halligen Islands. Formerly extended to the island of Wangerooge and adjacent Denmark, but there are no speakers in Denmark currently. In Germany there are some 10,000 speakers, but only the Ferring dialect of Föhr and Amrum is actively used by some 2,000 people. The whole area now has a distribution of 82% Germans, 10% mainly German-speaking Frisians and 8% mainly German-speaking Danes. The Frisians here say Fraschlönj for their Homeland, Frisia. The Danish names in the Frisian area are not entirely settled. Neither is the North Frisian orthography.
Check also the page for Slesvig, for cross-border German-Danish minorities of this region.
Fraschlönj
Ipar Frisiarrak Hego Slesvig-eko kostaldean bizi dira, Danimarka eta Alemaniaren mugaldean, inguru eleanitz batean. Uharte hauetan, zehazki: Husum, Föhr, Amrum, Sylt, Helgoland, eta Halligen uharteetan. Lehen baita Wangerooge uhartean eta Danimarkako ondoko lurretan, baina jada ez da hiztunik geratzen Danimarkan. Eskualde honetan gaur egunean, alemanak dira gehienak (%82), gehienbat alemanez mintzo diren frisiarrak %10 dira eta gehienbat alemanez mintzo diren daniarrak %8. Guztira 10.000 hiztun izango dira, baina bizitasuna soilik Ferring dialektoak dauka Föhr eta Amrum-en, 2.000 hiztunekin. Inguru honetako izen daniarrak ez daude oso finkaturik, ezta Ipar Frisieraren ortografia
Ikus, halaber, Slesvig eskualderako dugun orria, muga inguru hauetako gutxiengo aleman eta danierren berri izateko.
more at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9479/fries.html
Fairplay, how interesting that you keep referring to yourself as a "gook" while noone here labels you one. I guess you could "care less" about being called one, just like your idol Wild could care less about being called a Nazi.
You are both pathetic and devoid of any self-respect.
hi fairplay,
do you understand what that American "labeling" business is all about ... to my knowledge "gook" is a respected Korean name, isn´t it?
how could anyone possibly "label" me a "Nazi" ... since tout le monde knows that i´m anything but American?
best regards
wild
btw: here´s another tricky piece of the German "language landscape" ... Friesisch:
Frisian
Frisian is a Germanic language, endangered and divided in three dialects, located in non-contiguous territories in Holland and Germany. Those are: Western Frisian in the Netherlands, and Eastern Frisian and Northern Frisian in Germany. Frysk is the native name in Western Frisian, the only variety with a developed literary standard.
Frysk
Frisiera hizkuntza Germaniarra da, eta arriskuan dago. Hiru dialekto bereizten dira, hizkuntzan eta geografian, ukipenik gabeko hiru lurraldetan mintzatzen baitira: Mendebaldeko Frisiera Holandan, eta Alemanian Ekialdeko Frisiera eta Iparraldeko Frisiera. Mendebaldeko Frisierak soilik garatu du estandar idatzi bat, eta hartan hizkuntzari Frysk esaten zaio.
...
North Frisia
The North Frisians live in the German-Danish western coastal border area of Schleswig north of Husum and adjacent islands of Föhr, Amrum, Sylt, Helgoland, and the Halligen Islands. Formerly extended to the island of Wangerooge and adjacent Denmark, but there are no speakers in Denmark currently. In Germany there are some 10,000 speakers, but only the Ferring dialect of Föhr and Amrum is actively used by some 2,000 people. The whole area now has a distribution of 82% Germans, 10% mainly German-speaking Frisians and 8% mainly German-speaking Danes. The Frisians here say Fraschlönj for their Homeland, Frisia. The Danish names in the Frisian area are not entirely settled. Neither is the North Frisian orthography.
Check also the page for Slesvig, for cross-border German-Danish minorities of this region.
Fraschlönj
Ipar Frisiarrak Hego Slesvig-eko kostaldean bizi dira, Danimarka eta Alemaniaren mugaldean, inguru eleanitz batean. Uharte hauetan, zehazki: Husum, Föhr, Amrum, Sylt, Helgoland, eta Halligen uharteetan. Lehen baita Wangerooge uhartean eta Danimarkako ondoko lurretan, baina jada ez da hiztunik geratzen Danimarkan. Eskualde honetan gaur egunean, alemanak dira gehienak (%82), gehienbat alemanez mintzo diren frisiarrak %10 dira eta gehienbat alemanez mintzo diren daniarrak %8. Guztira 10.000 hiztun izango dira, baina bizitasuna soilik Ferring dialektoak dauka Föhr eta Amrum-en, 2.000 hiztunekin. Inguru honetako izen daniarrak ez daude oso finkaturik, ezta Ipar Frisieraren ortografia
Ikus, halaber, Slesvig eskualderako dugun orria, muga inguru hauetako gutxiengo aleman eta danierren berri izateko.
more at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9479/fries.html
This thread in essence has become the personal cut-and-paste board for an extremist individual of unknown origin residing in Germany, and has obviously stymied debate about the core subject. The ongoing tit-for-tat (of which I am no doubt guilty of participating in) and subsequent diversion has also shrunk the number of participants to a trickle of what it was in the beginning. I think people who would otherwise like to comment on Iraq are being turned off by the shift in subject matter and quite possibly the virtual spamming of the thread by Wild. Even Candle, who started this thread, hasn't posted in quite a while.
So I ask, if it is Wild's right to cut-and-paste like crazy ON THIS THREAD, is it not also our right to create another thread that excludes him from participation?
I await comments and vitriol.
Thank you for the compliments.
Perhaps some of you people in far away countries like america should stop talking about "defending" your country, but should also consider what the consequences of the actions are. Here is a nice example:
Iraq war could ignite radicalism in Indonesia, scholars tell US envoy
JAKARTA (AFP) - A war in Iraq could ignite radicalism in Indonesia, moderate Islamic leaders and scholars told the visiting top US envoy for Asia, James Kelly, during talks here.
"Is war truly the best step? We're hesitant, because the impact of it could provoke radicalism here," said Komaruddin Hidayat, a professor from the state Islamic university.
He was briefing reporters on a meeting held by several Indonesian intellectuals with Kelly at the home of the US ambassador here.
Hidayat said they told Kelly, the Assistant Secretary of State for East Asia and Pacific Affairs, that extremism would be invited in Indonesia if the United States was unable to prove its case that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction.
"With the result that if later there is an impact, it will be big. So we ask, OK, oppose terrorism but please be very careful, don't create unrest in Indonesia and other countries," Hidayat said.
The talks with Kelly revealed that an American attack on Iraq was still not certain, Hidayat said.
Kelly is on the second and final day of his visit to Jakarta. He is due to leave for Japan Saturday night on the next leg of his regional tour, which is also addressing terrorism and the North Korea nuclear crisis.
During talks Friday with government officials including President Megawati Sukarnoputri, Kelly expressed hope the Iraqi problem could be resolved peacefully but did not close the door to war as a last resort, Foreign Minister Hassan Wirayuda said.
Megawati said war over Iraq could greatly increase feelings of dissatisfaction with the United States, Wirayuda said.
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/030118/afp/030118132931asiapacificnews.html
[/b]
Hi Daniel M.
Maybe someone you know?
quote
Indonesia: Westerners Got Terror Training
Thomas, a 29-year-old Muslim convert from Melbourne, was arrested on Jan. 4 in Pakistan. He is being held on suspicion of terrorism links.
In December 2001, Indonesia's Intelligence Chief Lt. Gen. Abdullah Hendropriyono claimed that al-Qaida had operated training camps in Sulawesi, but he quickly retracted the claim after the police and the military denied the existence of such camps.
Last month, police in South Sulawesi said they had discovered three abandoned training camps where the alleged perpetrators of a deadly bombing of a McDonald's restaurant in December in Makassar, the provincial capital, trained for the attack.
...
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/030118/ap/d7okgisg0.html
Maybe someone you know?
quote
Indonesia: Westerners Got Terror Training
Thomas, a 29-year-old Muslim convert from Melbourne, was arrested on Jan. 4 in Pakistan. He is being held on suspicion of terrorism links.
In December 2001, Indonesia's Intelligence Chief Lt. Gen. Abdullah Hendropriyono claimed that al-Qaida had operated training camps in Sulawesi, but he quickly retracted the claim after the police and the military denied the existence of such camps.
Last month, police in South Sulawesi said they had discovered three abandoned training camps where the alleged perpetrators of a deadly bombing of a McDonald's restaurant in December in Makassar, the provincial capital, trained for the attack.
...
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/030118/ap/d7okgisg0.html