POLL: Evolution vs. Creation by God
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@themickey
There you go again, blaming "Christians" that aren't obeying the Bible as though it was the Bible telling them to commit crimes!!!!
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:6
The church is full of sinners. No doubt about that. Those who repent of their sin and receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior are pardoned and God works to clean them up and nobody, while living on this earth, will be without sin.
The church is also full of people who have never come to Christ in the manner He has commanded: repentance and trust in Jesus. These people may have a superficial faith and look like Christians, but if there has never been a personal yielding of themselves to the Lord Jesus as their Savior then they are Christian in name only.
There you go again, blaming "Christians" that aren't obeying the Bible as though it was the Bible telling them to commit crimes!!!!
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:6
The church is full of sinners. No doubt about that. Those who repent of their sin and receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior are pardoned and God works to clean them up and nobody, while living on this earth, will be without sin.
The church is also full of people who have never come to Christ in the manner He has commanded: repentance and trust in Jesus. These people may have a superficial faith and look like Christians, but if there has never been a personal yielding of themselves to the Lord Jesus as their Savior then they are Christian in name only.
Right, so Hillsong founder was a CINO? (Christian in name only)
"......Hillsong founder Brian Houston has announced he is stepping down as leader of the church as he defends criminal charges that allege he covered up his father’s child sexual abuse."
Statistics: As of February 2022, Hillsong Church reports 150,000 regular attendees globally, over 30 countries, up from 130,000 in 21 countries in May 2019 and 100,000 in 14 countries in September 2015.
Due to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, the church started measuring online attendees instead of regular attendees, which they stated average 444,000 per weekend.
In Australia, the denomination reported 30 churches and 43,000 regular attendees in its 2018 annual report.
"......Hillsong founder Brian Houston has announced he is stepping down as leader of the church as he defends criminal charges that allege he covered up his father’s child sexual abuse."
Statistics: As of February 2022, Hillsong Church reports 150,000 regular attendees globally, over 30 countries, up from 130,000 in 21 countries in May 2019 and 100,000 in 14 countries in September 2015.
Due to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, the church started measuring online attendees instead of regular attendees, which they stated average 444,000 per weekend.
In Australia, the denomination reported 30 churches and 43,000 regular attendees in its 2018 annual report.
@themickey
I am sure that many that have his same credentials are not genuinely saved. I had a pastor once that I think wasn't. I can't know for certain, but I do question it in my mind. Some of his behavior came out that he was involved in some things contrary to the Bible...not to the extent of what you've been posting, but definitely what most people on here would think were not acceptable actions for anyone. The last sermon I heard from him was really weird. He talked about those who look like they are Christians yet don't have the Holy Spirit. He likened it to an appliance that wasn't plugged in. I was floored by the message because it appeared to me that he was describing himself in the message and making a confession, though not an obvious one. Would a pastor ever not actually believe what he is preaching but just go along with everything to save face and not tell people he doesn't believe it? I think most leaders that have not been born again incorrectly think they have been because something was amiss at their conversion. All who come to Christ in the manner the Bible describes, will be saved, but many may think they have without fully understanding it.
I know someone who says he became a Christian when he realized that Jesus had died for his sins. That person now says nothing ever happened when he believed and he doesn't believe the Bible anymore. But is simply believing that Jesus died for your sins what the Bible says is saving faith? No. You can know something is true but not take the action of making use of it. He specifically said that he never prayed to become a Christian (I grilled him a couple times
), just knew that there came a point in time when he believed it to be true. Well, the Bible is pretty clear that there must be repentance, which is a u-turn from following your own sinful ways to submitting to the rulership of God. There also must be an understanding of the Person of Christ, that He is God who took on humanity. There must be an understanding that Jesus died for our sins and rose up from the grave. Then there must be a heart cry to God to apply what Jesus did, for ourselves. That is where I think my friend went wrong. There wasn't a calling upon God, an asking God to do the work. For, "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13 Word English Bible
There is a big emphasis in the Scriptures on Jesus' substitutionary work on our behalf. I think that someone who wants to be saved should focus on the scriptures that talk about the greatness of Jesus sacrifice and how it completely satisfies God's wrath against us. Those are the verses that can lead to a saving faith. If one tries to come to Jesus apart from understanding the significance of the cross and resurrection then they would likely not have a saving faith.
Those who are truly saved should experience severe discipline from God if they commit the type of crimes you've been listing. The Bible goes so far as to say this:
Did you ever hear about Jim Bakker? It seems like he might have actually become born-again after he ended up in prison. If so, then it would make sense that his previous actions were done as an unsaved pastor. I am not clear on whether or not he thinks he was converted in prison or simply found God in a way he had never experienced before.
An excerpt from his book:
I am sure that many that have his same credentials are not genuinely saved. I had a pastor once that I think wasn't. I can't know for certain, but I do question it in my mind. Some of his behavior came out that he was involved in some things contrary to the Bible...not to the extent of what you've been posting, but definitely what most people on here would think were not acceptable actions for anyone. The last sermon I heard from him was really weird. He talked about those who look like they are Christians yet don't have the Holy Spirit. He likened it to an appliance that wasn't plugged in. I was floored by the message because it appeared to me that he was describing himself in the message and making a confession, though not an obvious one. Would a pastor ever not actually believe what he is preaching but just go along with everything to save face and not tell people he doesn't believe it? I think most leaders that have not been born again incorrectly think they have been because something was amiss at their conversion. All who come to Christ in the manner the Bible describes, will be saved, but many may think they have without fully understanding it.
I know someone who says he became a Christian when he realized that Jesus had died for his sins. That person now says nothing ever happened when he believed and he doesn't believe the Bible anymore. But is simply believing that Jesus died for your sins what the Bible says is saving faith? No. You can know something is true but not take the action of making use of it. He specifically said that he never prayed to become a Christian (I grilled him a couple times
), just knew that there came a point in time when he believed it to be true. Well, the Bible is pretty clear that there must be repentance, which is a u-turn from following your own sinful ways to submitting to the rulership of God. There also must be an understanding of the Person of Christ, that He is God who took on humanity. There must be an understanding that Jesus died for our sins and rose up from the grave. Then there must be a heart cry to God to apply what Jesus did, for ourselves. That is where I think my friend went wrong. There wasn't a calling upon God, an asking God to do the work. For, "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13 Word English BibleThere is a big emphasis in the Scriptures on Jesus' substitutionary work on our behalf. I think that someone who wants to be saved should focus on the scriptures that talk about the greatness of Jesus sacrifice and how it completely satisfies God's wrath against us. Those are the verses that can lead to a saving faith. If one tries to come to Jesus apart from understanding the significance of the cross and resurrection then they would likely not have a saving faith.
Those who are truly saved should experience severe discipline from God if they commit the type of crimes you've been listing. The Bible goes so far as to say this:
That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. Now if we judged ourselves properly, we would not come under judgment.…
1 Corinthians 11:30
1 Corinthians 11:30
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:3-5
Eph 5:3-5
In his 1996 book, I Was Wrong, he admitted that the first time he actually read the Bible all the way through was in prison.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker
http://www.net-burst.net/spiritual-abuse/jim-bakker.htm
In retrospect, one of the main reasons I slipped into believing and preaching a prosperity doctrine was because of my lack of understanding of what it really means to allow Jesus be Lord of my life. . . .
Although I was committed to following Jesus, I wanted to do it my way rather than His . . . I wanted Jesus to be in my life, to be the engine, the power in my life, to be the motivator and the enabler who supplied the resources to do great things on earth and eventually take me to heaven, but I wanted to keep my hand on the controls. . . .
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Thanks for raising the subject of Jimmy Bakker, yes I recall him and many of the old time American evangelists, when I was a kid, every Sunday night was movie night at church, our family always went, so for years was indoctrinated with American evangelists and other religious movies.
To refresh my memory I just read up on wiki on Bakker.
Ohhh boyyy, do you think I'm ever going back to that scam fest?
Anyhow thanks for jogging my memory.
I can't stop laughing when I think about it.
To refresh my memory I just read up on wiki on Bakker.
Ohhh boyyy, do you think I'm ever going back to that scam fest?
Anyhow thanks for jogging my memory.
I can't stop laughing when I think about it.
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I've never listened to Jim Bakker or read his book. I heard about the scandal and have read a little on it. I know nothing about his current ministry except for what I pulled up tonight on a web search.
I think it's good that he was willing to write a book about how he was wrong.
Going back to whatever you had before would not be a good thing. What you need is to be born again by Jesus Christ. He can change you.
I think it's good that he was willing to write a book about how he was wrong.
Going back to whatever you had before would not be a good thing. What you need is to be born again by Jesus Christ. He can change you.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
2 Cor 5:17
2 Cor 5:17
maybe what you really need is to just grow up and 'put away those childish things'..like superstitious religious beliefs.
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One would think a church founder with thousands of followers was actually led by God.
What student is saying, we're all fallible. Unfortunately a huge number of church leaders are sexual deviants, more so than any occupation I'm aware of, all those kids and skirt is just too much temptation to cope with it seems.
So going from experience, I've seen the marketing scam of gold bugs, the cultism of crypto, the bs within churches, the bias and fake news of news media, corruption of politicians, corruption in the police forces, everywhere there is money, power, captive audience there is corruption.
WTF would I trust churches and the bible, why become a religious cultist, makes no sense, jumping out of one fire into the next. No thx.
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