Better throw in a BM on Bar 11/T1... Non-dom volume with dom price movement.
On 10-case geometry and beyond
- Thread starter Simples
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At the very least, mentally degapping bar-by-bar is a requirement for this method. It will change what you perceive as a 2-bar price case and produce completely different results than not degapping. You might think not degapping is a shortcut,... it's not.
My view would look at how you determined your first P1.
Let's assume that it is correct.
Lat4 does indeed trigger retro. Retro makes Lat4 a PP6. This segment is complete a BM is place "away from the direction of price". If a BM was placed at the high of Lat1 then this BM would be at the low of Lat4. If the closest BM was the low of bar1, then bar5 would be a BO,T1 and Ab. A BM would be at at it's high.
Bar7 is a BM,rev and not a BO,T1. There was no T1 logged (unless one went intrabar during MADA). In this case we go with degapped EOB. No T1 logged before BO, then not true BO,T1. If a not-true BO,T1, go intrabar MADA. BM at the low.
Bar8 wait, yet can inform an early rtl. Distinguishing true BM,rev's from BO,T1's is important. Pencil it out, think it through. How does one anticipate the n +1 bar? What came before?
File in your expanding index card catalog and glossary. By having visual patterns associated with the text description as well as in a tactile format accelerates transference. You can use these to assemble the Modrian table on the floor and see c turns.
Bar9, BM,rev, BM at it's high.
Bar10, Lat9, no wait since Lat3, on the way to a PP6 most likely.
Another possible sequence is for Bar2 to be a PP3. A BM is at it's high. Bar3 is a BM,rev BM at it's low. Bar6 retro yields PP6. We are back on the same track. This is partly why it's self-correcting. There are these nodes where there is no confusion about the ID of a bar and turn. MisID's get flushed here as P1 is assigned and a new window forming independent from the past.
Laterals are a bit complicated. What helps is "squishing" multiple bars into a single bar. Think of how the 30m bar transforms as the 5m builds bar by bar.
The easiest way to approach them is to encapsulate them and catch the BO of the lat boundaries. Not the false break out's, the true BO's that trend towards other price levels. This is a critical area to degap, these 4 bars that can or cannot get to retro and make themselves relevant.
Another area critical are PP4's, PP5's classes of OB's. A tick can make it an EE or not. This determines if whether the bar that just formed is in the process of turning in a new price direction or continuing it's present course. This is important distinction to cultivate. Only degapping bar by bar will get you there.
The first bar that closed outside the lateral boundary is the BO bar, the following bar's close is for the mouse that gets the cheese. This first bar is a P1. One can logical deduce why this is the way that it is. What occurred within the lateral would determine if the BM is placed at the high or low of this bar.
Laterals are meant to be confusing. We solve that with the beauty, elegance and simplicity of encapsulating them and picking it up directionally after it's sorted itself out internally.
The above is something that one can return to when sorting out the logic intra-laterally. RDBMS does sort out intra-lateral logic but only when rigorous and impeccable in applying the various rules.
hth
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Helps tremendously. Thank you so much.
I think I remember seeing this discussion somewhere. As a beginner we sideline or hold until BO gives valid sequence. Why can't bar 4 be Ab though? Is it because it's the first wait bar?
For logging 30m bars, are we just marking the current formation of 30m bar every 5 mins? Like SYM, FTP, XB, XB, XB etc? Or do we mark up or down sentiment based on open and current price?
Also what exactly are arrows?
One more thing, I guess for the decreasing volume bars direction can be with or against the segment unless it breaches BM? Such as 2 T1s that are XB and XR sequence?
Bar 5 Ab in this case was also an example, it was an EE for long segment and a BO bar at the time. Although price is moving against the segment prior to completion of EE?
I think I remember seeing this discussion somewhere. As a beginner we sideline or hold until BO gives valid sequence. Why can't bar 4 be Ab though? Is it because it's the first wait bar?
For logging 30m bars, are we just marking the current formation of 30m bar every 5 mins? Like SYM, FTP, XB, XB, XB etc? Or do we mark up or down sentiment based on open and current price?
Also what exactly are arrows?
One more thing, I guess for the decreasing volume bars direction can be with or against the segment unless it breaches BM? Such as 2 T1s that are XB and XR sequence?
Bar 5 Ab in this case was also an example, it was an EE for long segment and a BO bar at the time. Although price is moving against the segment prior to completion of EE?
Degapping IMO. Make your own determination.
Degapping adulterates the price pane. In this case, price pane adulteration renders both visual "chart-trading" order-entry, as well as dom order-entry, inaccurate or inappropriate IN REAL-TIME, when real money is on the line. This ripples into effectiveness and appropriateness of order-types available to the trader. An unrelated but implicit to JHPV side effect, is/are changes to technical price levels such as intraday and daily highs/lows, pivots, S/R, and a myriad of common and custom indicators, all of which may bleed into longer term analysis.
Furthermore, adulterating the price pane by degapping does not adjust volume... that is the volume from the close of the previous bar through the open of the current bar. So volume with degapped price bars remains time-based, while price gets "adjusted" with no accountability or connection to the volume associated with that price adjustment.
It is my opinion, degapping was introduced as an attempt to un-"bundle" or un-"chunk" bar information into a more "streaming" data reference. It's commendable... markets do not operate on bundles of data, markets operate as a single stream of data. With the current order-entry and overall market charting and monitoring options available, breaking the price pane comes with too much downside in real-time when real money is in play.
As an aside, degapping tools have limited availability in the current charting and market monitoring offerings. Robust platform customization features or third parties may be required to obtain degapping functionality.
Degapping adulterates the price pane. In this case, price pane adulteration renders both visual "chart-trading" order-entry, as well as dom order-entry, inaccurate or inappropriate IN REAL-TIME, when real money is on the line. This ripples into effectiveness and appropriateness of order-types available to the trader. An unrelated but implicit to JHPV side effect, is/are changes to technical price levels such as intraday and daily highs/lows, pivots, S/R, and a myriad of common and custom indicators, all of which may bleed into longer term analysis.
Furthermore, adulterating the price pane by degapping does not adjust volume... that is the volume from the close of the previous bar through the open of the current bar. So volume with degapped price bars remains time-based, while price gets "adjusted" with no accountability or connection to the volume associated with that price adjustment.
It is my opinion, degapping was introduced as an attempt to un-"bundle" or un-"chunk" bar information into a more "streaming" data reference. It's commendable... markets do not operate on bundles of data, markets operate as a single stream of data. With the current order-entry and overall market charting and monitoring options available, breaking the price pane comes with too much downside in real-time when real money is in play.
As an aside, degapping tools have limited availability in the current charting and market monitoring offerings. Robust platform customization features or third parties may be required to obtain degapping functionality.
Everything aside... Friday ended with an EE on bar 78 and entered a lateral to bar 81 regardless of whether we degap or not.
Bar 76... BM Rev/ P1
Bar 77... P1
Bar 78... P1/ PP1
Bar 79... Sym Wait
Bar 80... Sym Wait
Bar 81... XR Lat 2 Wait
Today it looks like a big gap down but if we degap there is about 7 Point range to compete for BO of lateral.
The bias should be long considering 78 was the EE of dominant short but since the lateral is wide what would be the proper way to start annotating?
Since I do not know what I don't know... I'm going to start fresh and wait for FRV as a possible P1 for now...
Bar 76... BM Rev/ P1
Bar 77... P1
Bar 78... P1/ PP1
Bar 79... Sym Wait
Bar 80... Sym Wait
Bar 81... XR Lat 2 Wait
Today it looks like a big gap down but if we degap there is about 7 Point range to compete for BO of lateral.
The bias should be long considering 78 was the EE of dominant short but since the lateral is wide what would be the proper way to start annotating?
Since I do not know what I don't know... I'm going to start fresh and wait for FRV as a possible P1 for now...
A lot of great high quality posts here lately I think.
On degapping. Jack wanted to degap because doing so will alter the price cases in certain situations, and this will have a cascading effect. I was recently given the task of learning VBA for Excel and I actually came to understand even better what Jack was trying to convey. He was trying to convert the market process into machine language. That said, if a trader does not degap it will affect the flow of booleans to follow because the price cases might be different than if one decided to not degap at least mentally.
Now in practical trading, I use gaps because they are important in determining the strength of the bulls or the bears. If either side is unable to close a gap then the direction is clear and I will the VTP to manage my trade.
@NeedToLearn . Something that helped me in the early learning process was to wipe the memory so to speak. If you get lost, sideline. Then I would wait one bar. On the next bar, assign P1. The VTP is self correcting so it does not matter where you start. At some point your volume count and the market will sync. You will know because WMCN will occur.
In the spirit of sharing, this is the log format that I use.
On degapping. Jack wanted to degap because doing so will alter the price cases in certain situations, and this will have a cascading effect. I was recently given the task of learning VBA for Excel and I actually came to understand even better what Jack was trying to convey. He was trying to convert the market process into machine language. That said, if a trader does not degap it will affect the flow of booleans to follow because the price cases might be different than if one decided to not degap at least mentally.
Now in practical trading, I use gaps because they are important in determining the strength of the bulls or the bears. If either side is unable to close a gap then the direction is clear and I will the VTP to manage my trade.
@NeedToLearn . Something that helped me in the early learning process was to wipe the memory so to speak. If you get lost, sideline. Then I would wait one bar. On the next bar, assign P1. The VTP is self correcting so it does not matter where you start. At some point your volume count and the market will sync. You will know because WMCN will occur.
In the spirit of sharing, this is the log format that I use.
In your chart there is a Lat 4 at EOD. @Sprout is the group leader I would say, S/he has the time and the commitment so I would wait on a reply from their person to be sure. My personalized take is that I would wait on a break of the lateral at which point I would assign a P1. As I posted earlier, if I am wrong, the market will tell me so, and I will correct. I will not commit funds until the market is doing WMCN.
As far as bias, do not get bogged down in theory. This is a bear run so that Lat4 is a bear flag until proven other wise.
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This was my view. I logged an Ah on bar78. There's no T1 in the trend series and bar 78 advances a peak to P2. It's an EE so a BM at the bar's low. No measure until lat4 retro then a PP6 and a BM short at bar81's high.