On 10-case geometry and beyond

[NeedToLearn]

I see, so when we get an EE we BM and reverse until a fail safe event or another EE which would give us another BM.

After an EE we get P1 on that EE bar for A bands and fail safe events so we BM and use that bar's volume for P1. Other bands and PP's we assign P1 volume on the bar following after BM and start measuring.

BO,T1 is a BO from RTL set by P1 (or P1s) and T1 (or T1s) and the BO bar is immediately assigned a P1? Or is it that we get a P1 and T1 as soon as we see a BO of TL.
This part confuses me. When we have P1 and T1, don't we HAVE to assign next peak P2 or an EE?

Oh boy I just got confused even more lol.

So progression is P1, T1, P2, T2P, T2F, P3,etc. with EEs in between to start over from P1.

What is the direction of the bar for each? I think that's the part that I'm not getting at the moment. I thought Jack first explained it like the gaussian terms first which makes P1 an end of a trend and start of a new one that builds T1 to P2 for X2X part of the gaussian followed by T2P to T2F non dom traverse to P3 for continuation of dominant trend completing x2x2y2x gaussian.

For simplicity, let's say we get P1, T1, P2, T2P without any internals or other fail safe and/or EEs in between, should the bars be translating in the same direction? i.e. if P1 starts a BM long, T1 = XB, P2=XB, T2P = XB?

Thanks in advance!

 

[tiddlywinks]

So progression is P1, T1, P2, T2P, T2F, P3,etc. with EEs in between to start over from P1.

Correct.

BO,T1 is a BO from RTL set by P1 (or P1s) and T1 (or T1s) and the BO bar is immediately assigned a P1?

You already know that answer...

After an EE we get P1 on that EE bar for A bands and fail safe events so we BM and use that bar's volume for P1. Other bands and PP's we assign P1 volume on the bar following after BM and start measuring.

This part confuses me. When we have P1 and T1, don't we HAVE to assign next peak P2 or an EE?

Yes. The operative here is P1 *AND* T1. Not withstanding flaw, if only P1, another P1(or EE) is possible as a peak. Perhaps you can include a pic-snip of your confusion.

What is the direction of the bar for each?

A more useful question is what is the sentiment of the (price) bar? As for gaussians, put them aside for now is my advise. You have to remember, each segment is AND has nested gaussian sequence. And all (nested)fractals must complete to effect change. For the most part you CAN NOT see, or annotate, 1-bar or 2-bar gaussian sequences. More important for now imo, draw containers based on your volume analysis(the bar-by-bar EE stuff we are talking about). Once there, the gaussians will make a lot more sense, in combo with everything! You will get aha's on all 3 pieces, containers, EE's, and gaussian along that path.

One trick that work(s)(ed) for me regarding gaussians... for learning, connect peaks, find the properly matched forest level container. It's rogue. It's slowest to fastest. Only recommended for gaussian learning.

Where I am right now is in utter amazement with the EE stuff. Complete 180 for me!! Fell to the floor a few times last week using the Modrian table too! Jack was brilliant!

Trade On!

 

[NeedToLearn]

Hmm, actually I think part of my confusion comes from not knowing where BO,T1 is... can it happen anywhere as long as it "breaks-out" of the RTL?

Friday had a lot of laterals but if we do rev chron there are some examples I have hard time with. Here's a snippet. I didn't do any degapping for the day or for bar by bar and just started with a P1 on the first bar of the day.

After Lat 4 (bar 6) if we do rev chron, bar 4 has lower volume than T1 so I assigned it Ab LVBO which would be a new P1 as it is an A-band EE. Bar 5 would be T1 then followed by wait on Bar 6 which made me fan the RTL. Bar 7 broke out of this line with higher volume than the assigned P1 of bar 4. The question begins here. Do we assign this bar (7) as Ag VEBO/ BO,T1? Or since it is in the opposing direction do we assign it as BO,T1 only?

What would be the correct action here? Entry long as it breaks out of bar 6 high since it is BO,T1? Then Reverse short as it is Ag VEBO with BM on top of bar 7?

Bar 8 would be wait either way, but what is bar 9 then? Depending on bar 7 isn't it P1 vs T1 here?

 

[NeedToLearn]

Correct.



You already know that answer...





Yes. The operative here is P1 *AND* T1. Not withstanding flaw, if only P1, another P1(or EE) is possible as a peak. Perhaps you can include a pic-snip of your confusion.




A more useful question is what is the sentiment of the (price) bar? As for gaussians, put them aside for now is my advise. You have to remember, each segment is AND has nested gaussian sequence. And all (nested)fractals must complete to effect change. For the most part you CAN NOT see, or annotate, 1-bar or 2-bar gaussian sequences. More important for now imo, draw containers based on your volume analysis(the bar-by-bar EE stuff we are talking about). Once there, the gaussians will make a lot more sense, in combo with everything! You will get aha's on all 3 pieces, containers, EE's, and gaussian along that path.

One trick that work(s)(ed) for me regarding gaussians... for learning, connect peaks, find the properly matched forest level container. It's rogue. It's slowest to fastest. Only recommended for gaussian learning.

Where I am right now is in utter amazement with the EE stuff. Complete 180 for me!! Fell to the floor a few times last week using the Modrian table too! Jack was brilliant!

Trade On!

Oh and one more quick question to add. When you guys talk about sentiment of a bar, it means whether the close is higher or lower vs the open correct? i.e. if the close is higher than the open then sentiment is long and vice-versa?

 

[tiddlywinks]

Bar 8 would be wait either way, but what is bar 9 then? Depending on bar 7 isn't it P1 vs T1 here?
View attachment 187966

Forget lat. There is something more important that needs fixing...

Does a "wait" bar give permission to measure it's volume?

The answer is no. Why are you including wait bars in your measurements?

Bar 4 Sym... wait
Bar 6 Hitch... wait
Bar 8 Sym... wait
Bar 9 Stitch-R with higher volume for the pair... not wait.
Bar 10 Sym ... wait

 

[NeedToLearn]

Forget lat. There is something more important that needs fixing...

Does a "wait" bar give permission to measure it's volume?

The answer is no. Why are you including wait bars in your measurements?

Bar 4 Sym... wait
Bar 6 Hitch... wait
Bar 8 Sym... wait
Bar 9 Stitch-R with higher volume for the pair... not wait.
Bar 10 Sym ... wait

My understanding was after Lat 4 we go back and measure?
So,
Bar 4 Sym... wait
Bar 5 Lat 3... wait
Bar 6 Hitch... wait within wait
Bar 7 XB but fails to close outside the lateral (After Lat 3 the lateral only ends if it closes outside the range of where it started I thought) --> Go back and measure from bar 4 (Rev Chron?)

Bar 4 Ab LVBO sentiment down <-- Maybe this is the bar I'm getting wrong and I'm not understanding Rev Chron properly but if I assign this as P1 for EE I get
Bar 5 XR T1
Bar 6 Hitch... wait
Bar 7 XB.... ??? P2?? BOT1?? AgVEBO?? <--- and then I would get stuck here

 

[tiddlywinks]

After Lat 4 (bar 6) if we do rev chron, bar 4 has lower volume than T1 so I assigned it Ab LVBO which would be a new P1 as it is an A-band EE. Bar 5 would be T1 then followed by wait on Bar 6 which made me fan the RTL. Bar 7 broke out of this line with higher volume than the assigned P1 of bar 4. The question begins here. Do we assign this bar (7) as Ag VEBO/ BO,T1? Or since it is in the opposing direction do we assign it as BO,T1 only?

Bar 4 Ab ID'd is what I saw in particular. Otherwise, all is good on the wait topic. YAY!!

Dismissing the Lat, this is how I would have read this. I have included the RTL's I might have used real-time, and gaussians. Lats are a topic unto themselves imo... not a topic for an isolated hindsight example. And just a mention, Bar 9 is an OB of the Lat boundries, but the bar itself is not OB. hmmmm. It's my invention.

I want to point out some brain food...

1) Think of volume sequence components and container points 1,2,3. Which volume sequence components correlate with which container points? Are things lining up properly? What would be clue(s) a/the container is incorrect?

2) Note EEs occur at end of segments. Which segment ended with bar 5 Ab? What about each of the BOT1's? How bout Bar 5 Ab... Can Ab even be a container point 3? Same question Bar 11.

3) Do gaussians match container points AND volume IDs? Was Bar 1 really the beginning?

Gotta luv the eventual self correcting nature of this stuff.

HTH

 

[NeedToLearn]

The gaussian looks almost too perfect here lol.

Bar 5 Ab looks like it ended a retrace non-dominant segment (I guess each segment is composed of either Dom or nonDom?) reaching du... Ohhhhhh...

Bar 11 though... we didn't have a P2 to have Ab there did we? Don't we need to complete P1 and T1 to have A bands? Since bar 9 is P1 even if bar 10 is T1(instead of wait) that would only make bar 11 another T1... I feel like this one is a trick question lol

What gets me is the BOT1 still... bar 7 BO,T1 is a continuation of dominant trend but also an EE of the dominant trend... the anticipation would have been T1 to P2 again I suppose but fail safe EE (another BO,T1) happened? In this case, we would not have known bar 9 is BO,T1 until it broke the low of bar 7 because it could have just been a wait again... ugh my head hurts

 

[tiddlywinks]

Bar 11 though... we didn't have a P2 to have Ab there did we?

Good call... T1 was not ID'd after Bar 9 P1. T1 is necessary to determine Ab. Bar 11 is in fact T1, and there is up sloping RTL, bars 9,10,11. How does that affect containers? Gaussians?

Again, I am dismissing the Lat in entirety.

Good call!!

 

[NeedToLearn]

As far as I can tell the gaussians and containers gets messy from bar 9 and we get two trends overlapping.

Actually when this happened in real time, upto bar 7 felt like a normal trend progression and from bar 8 I just didn't know what to figure...