Omicron: Natural immunity idea ‘not really panning out'

Straight from Pfizer:

"Sera from individuals who received two doses of the current COVID-19 vaccine did exhibit, on average, more than a 25-fold reduction in neutralization titers against the Omicron variant compared to wild-type, indicating that two doses of BNT162b2 may not be sufficient to protect against infection with the Omicron variant.

On November 25, we started to develop an Omicron-specific COVID-19 vaccine. The development will continue as planned in the event that a vaccine adaption is needed to increase the level and duration of protection against Omicron. First batches of the Omicron-based vaccine can be produced and are planned to be ready for deliveries within 100 days, pending regulatory approval. Pfizer and BioNTech have tested other variant-specific vaccines as well, which have produced very strong neutralization titers and a tolerable safety profile. Based on this experience we have high confidence that if needed we can deliver an Omicron-based vaccine in March 2022."


Yeah, I realize a targeted vaccine is going to be, well... targeted.

Should we have told those who died while waiting for an Omicron-targeted shot to wait? I mean, you are waiting, right?

How many fully vaxxed died from Omicron? Less than 1% of deaths.
 
Hey Des,

Thank you for your service. I say that not because of my military background but because you and your family have taken the fight to Covid plus the fact that you and I grew up for a while in the same northside backyard.

All of my siblings (one a Doctor in South Dakota, one a Nurse in Chicago, and another brother an EMT in Kentucky) are also part of Covid clinical trials...fully vaccinated and boosted. Luckily, not one of them has tested positive for Covid in this Pandemic but if they ever do...they aren't worried.

wrbtrader


Awesome that you're family is in those trials. Thank them on my behalf (FWIW).
 
I want to throw something in here that i have previously commented on, but only briefly, in another thread.

As a scientist, and as one who has used PCR in my own work and has studied biochemistry formally, though it is not my area of specialization, I want to mention some aspects of Covid testing that have not been given enough coverage in the media.

It's my opinion that there is misunderstanding regarding Covid testing among both the general public and practicing physicians. What I state below is merely my views based on my training and experience, and I have no data to support these views other than what is publicly available.

HIV was the first virus pandemic among a subset of the population to make wide use of PCR (polymerase chain reaction) as a diagnostic tool. It is still used for HIV patients. Here, PCR is used on blood samples. A positive PCR test for the presence of HIV is a reliable indicator of an HIV infection. Covid-19 is the first viral pandemic after HIV in which PCR is being widely applied. However it is not applied on blood samples but rather on mucous samples, mainly drawn from the nasal passage. A positive test here is not a reliable indicator of infection, but rather a reliable indicator of exposure to the Corona-19 virus.

rt-PCR -- the mode employed for Covid virus -- can, in principle, detect as little as a single virus particle. At this level, detection is controlled mainly by sampling error. rt-PCR detects virus RNA, regardless of whether the virus is viable or not. Handling of PCR samples and the procedure itself requires trained hands and sterile technique.

The nature of PCR is such that it allows a trace of virus, or its nucleic acid content, that is otherwise too low in concentration to be detected, to be amplified geometrically, many fold. The procedure involves automated thermal cycling. Each cycle doubles the concentration of the analyte -- the thing one is looking for. After 40 cycles (not uncommon) the analyte concentration has been amplified by a factor of 5.5 x E11.

If all positive PCR tests are counted as infections the number of real infections will be fewer than the number of positive tests. Actual Infection requires that the virus invade host cells. But PCR of nasal mucous does not test for that. It tests for presence of virus in the nasal passage. If the number of cycles needed to show a positive result is high, there is a lower probability of the virus invading the host than if only ten or so cycles is required. Then the probability of the virus successfully invading the host is much higher. I believe this relationship is likely a contributor to the high number of Covid-19 infections being reported as asymptomatic. It seems to me that all positive PCR tests are being reported as "infections". Most asymptomatic "infections" are probably cases where the virus was found at low levels via high PCR amplification, but the virus did not successfully invade the host.

Another factor, an important one, is that early dip stick type tests were found to be insufficiently selective for Covid-19 virus. These tests proved relatively useless. Because States were left on there own to report their test results and early unreliable dip stick tests were often intermingled with PCR test results, the intermingled test results became essentially useless. This is the reason the CDC, once it was freed from administrative interference, decided to discount the early test results in their decision making.

Now we have some measure of national coordination of test result reporting, and the results are far more useful. Today much improved rapid antigen (not antibody) tests are available for Covid-19. These tests do respond to the omicron variant but with somewhat lesser sensitivity than to the prior variants. In my opinion, these antigen tests should be quite useful in early detection of actual infections because of their lower sensitivity compared to that of PCR. I believe it is quite probable that most people testing positive with these current antigen tests while asymptomatic will go on to develop symptoms in a few days, ranging from mild to severe depending on their vaccination status.

I do not want to suggest that the PCR tests are useless. They are highly specific for Covid-19 and if they show a positive result with a low number of cycles that is a red light. Chances are the host will soon experience the symptoms of a Covid infection if they haven't already. But a positive result only after a high number of cycles is a yellow light, indicating the subject has been exposed to Covid-19, and isolation for 5 days is in order to see if an infection develops.

These are my opinions as a person with limited, but certainly not zero, expertise in closely related science. I have years of experience directing research in solid state nucleic acid detectors.
 
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PROBLEM SOLVED

for those agaisnt taking some government created vaccine and prefer natural defense.... here you go...


Christopher Key is the leader of the so-called ‘Vaccine Police’; an organisation that condemns the Covid-19 vaccine and has repeatedly lashed out at the jabs and those supporting them over the last few months.

Now, Key is encouraging people to fight coronavirus with ‘urine therapy’ instead of getting the vaccine – encouraging the drinking of your own urine, over a simple injection.

In a video posted to his Telegram account this weekend, he said: ‘The antidote that we have seen now, and we have tons and tons of research, is urine therapy. OK, and I know to a lot of you this sounds crazy, but guys, God’s given us everything we need.’
 
Why would I get vaccinated for something I already had and recovered from? Makes no sense.
There is quite a bit of reliable data that indicates vaccination provides superior protection from future re-infection compared to prior infection. You might want to check into that.
 
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My youngest is in a clinical trial and my wife and child fly out to the research hospital monthly. Both are required to test prior to the flight. They both tested + for Delta a few months ago. Both are vaxxed... no symptoms. The postponed the trip for two weeks. All good.

I got PCRed at the same time. Also positive. No symptoms. Uncanny!
please see my post #113 above.
 
There is quite a bit of reliable data that indicates vaccination provides superior protection from future re-infection compared to prior infection. You might want to check into that.
There is no such thing as re-infection.
 
Why would I get vaccinated for something I already had and recovered from? Makes no sense.

Not a perfect analogy because the data is still largely out as to how well the vaccines protect against later variants, but people get flu shots every year even if they've had the flu in the past.
 
Straight from Pfizer:

"Sera from individuals who received two doses of the current COVID-19 vaccine did exhibit, on average, more than a 25-fold reduction in neutralization titers against the Omicron variant compared to wild-type, indicating that two doses of BNT162b2 may not be sufficient to protect against infection with the Omicron variant.

On November 25, we started to develop an Omicron-specific COVID-19 vaccine. The development will continue as planned in the event that a vaccine adaption is needed to increase the level and duration of protection against Omicron. First batches of the Omicron-based vaccine can be produced and are planned to be ready for deliveries within 100 days, pending regulatory approval. Pfizer and BioNTech have tested other variant-specific vaccines as well, which have produced very strong neutralization titers and a tolerable safety profile. Based on this experience we have high confidence that if needed we can deliver an Omicron-based vaccine in March 2022."

Correct!

 
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