Moveon.org has got to be shut down!
- Thread starter Maverick74
- Start date
I had made that post very early this morning. No way did I think this thread would evolve into the heated and ugly thing it became.
No, I cannot give an example. And for once I agree with Pabst and Maverick. And Abe Foxman who I know quite well and agree with usually but not always. And less and less as the years go by (Marc Rich comes to mind). Hey Abe, take retirement!
Moveon.org was irresponsible. Period. No excuses.
Peace,
RS
Why does that comment seem to fit you so well you liberal pig. Showing your true colors every day are you. Yeah my parents are poor. I've had to work for everything I have in life so what. Maybe now you understand why I can't stand liberals. Yeah, I could sit here with my hands out looking for gov't handouts and begging for special programs and entitlements but no, I made something of life instead through hard work and perseverance. But if you want to talk about my parents again, I would prefer we do it in a more private venue, maybe even in person. I don't think you would be so talkative then but that's just a wild guess.
The fact that you are implying someone is a loser because they don't make more then 40k a year is a joke my friend. Again, the avg income in this country is about 28k a year. Hell most police officers and teachers don't make more then 40k ever in their lifetime. I guess they are losers to you too huh dgabriel? You are a disgrace.
You know RS, I appreciate you saying that. All I wanted is for these guys to acknowledge that. Instead they were blinded by their ideology and their devotion to the left at all cost. If the right had done that or if they do that in the future, I would denounce that kind of behavior in a minute. It has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with character. obviously some of your pals on the left have no character. But I do appreciate the fact that at least you can realize there are some things that are not in good taste and this was one of them.
The problem really resides in the extreme nature of our society, and the need for shock value just to get someone's attention.
To compare Bush to Hitler is of course as absurd as comparing Clinton to the leader of a communist country.
The problem is, that some of the actions taken by Clinton were similar to some of the actions taken by communist countries.
In the same way, some of the actions taken by the Bush administration are similar to some of the actions taken by the Nazi party in the the beginning of their rise to power.
So how does one side spread the message that an administration's actions are worthy of concern and/or change, without going over the top?
It is a problem, as people are so saturated with drama that you nearly have to scream at them to get their attention.
If a calm and rational speaker is going on about the potential for abuse of the Patriot Act, most Americans change the channel.
If you say "Bush is acting just like Hitler!" Suddenly you have drama, and perhaps have captured the brief attention span of the electorate, and can manipulate their emotions, base emotions of fear, greed, etc.
I cannot condone what moveon.org did, but unfortunately I can fully understand it.
They are not the problem, it is really a societal problem, and a lack of rational thinking and crude emotionalism in this country on the side of both the left and the right. It has been taken to a ghastly extreme as to not seem extreme any more. Just like watching extreme violence on TV, we are become desensitized to the actually gross nature of the data input in our lives. Subtlety and simplicity are but a nostalgic reflection of a kinder and gentler time.
People have to become so extreme to get noticed these days it is really reduced us to who can scream the loudest and appear the most bizarre by contrast.
I see it even in these web sites, where it becomes a contest of who can flame the loudest and longest to see who wins, rather than just calm and reasonable discourse.
I have been guilty of falling into the flaming trap, and am trying to take steps to change that behavior. It is very difficult at times to break with the crowd and stay in touch with more refined and mature methods of conversation and argumentation.
It is as if we are all speaking in a very crowded noisy bar, having to yell to even be heard, when in fact the noise of the bar has been turned off....but we are all so habituated to the drama and noise that we don't even know we are screaming.
I would like to see everyone turn down the rhetoric, but alas, I don't think it is going to happen any time soon.
To compare Bush to Hitler is of course as absurd as comparing Clinton to the leader of a communist country.
The problem is, that some of the actions taken by Clinton were similar to some of the actions taken by communist countries.
In the same way, some of the actions taken by the Bush administration are similar to some of the actions taken by the Nazi party in the the beginning of their rise to power.
So how does one side spread the message that an administration's actions are worthy of concern and/or change, without going over the top?
It is a problem, as people are so saturated with drama that you nearly have to scream at them to get their attention.
If a calm and rational speaker is going on about the potential for abuse of the Patriot Act, most Americans change the channel.
If you say "Bush is acting just like Hitler!" Suddenly you have drama, and perhaps have captured the brief attention span of the electorate, and can manipulate their emotions, base emotions of fear, greed, etc.
I cannot condone what moveon.org did, but unfortunately I can fully understand it.
They are not the problem, it is really a societal problem, and a lack of rational thinking and crude emotionalism in this country on the side of both the left and the right. It has been taken to a ghastly extreme as to not seem extreme any more. Just like watching extreme violence on TV, we are become desensitized to the actually gross nature of the data input in our lives. Subtlety and simplicity are but a nostalgic reflection of a kinder and gentler time.
People have to become so extreme to get noticed these days it is really reduced us to who can scream the loudest and appear the most bizarre by contrast.
I see it even in these web sites, where it becomes a contest of who can flame the loudest and longest to see who wins, rather than just calm and reasonable discourse.
I have been guilty of falling into the flaming trap, and am trying to take steps to change that behavior. It is very difficult at times to break with the crowd and stay in touch with more refined and mature methods of conversation and argumentation.
It is as if we are all speaking in a very crowded noisy bar, having to yell to even be heard, when in fact the noise of the bar has been turned off....but we are all so habituated to the drama and noise that we don't even know we are screaming.
I would like to see everyone turn down the rhetoric, but alas, I don't think it is going to happen any time soon.
Yup, there should be standards of taste. This was an unfortunate misstep by whoever was responsible for the bad judgement. I don't have a clue if it was the decision of one person, or a committee of 1000. My bet is it was closer to a single person. Whatever the facts of the decision were, it was just poor judgement in the extreme.
The thing is that this was not an endorsed ad by any party or candidate.
Unlike the Willie Horton ad.
Which was.
Was that not in bad taste? I hope you can see that negative politics just suck coming from either side of the political spectrum. Or from anywhere in between.
There are so many real issues. This kind of innuendo (to use a polite term) is a waste of time. And in extreme cases like these, reflect badly on our society as a whole. It sickens me every time the collective "we" give more ammunition to the real enemies of our way of life. Who in their right mind would arm an adversary? That's what this kind of crap adds up to IMO.
As I tried to point out in another post, the "public domain" exposure of politicians cuts both ways. For example, it's good that Jay Leno can make fun of whoever is President on a nightly basis. It's bad that Bush can be called a nazi, or Clinton a murderer. It makes us all look bad to a world not at peace.
Peace,
RS
Nice post's by Rogue and RS. As much as I vehemently argue with the two of you, (and NVS) I know intuitively in my heart, what fine, concerned, compassionate men you are. What I dig about politics is the goal of consensus. We're all shaped by differing environments, experiences, theology's, and geographical locales. Yet a democracy learns to give and take for the betterment of all. God bless.
And BTW: Most importantly, we're all huge sports fans.
And BTW: Most importantly, we're all huge sports fans.
Quote from Pabst:
Nice post's by Rogue and RS. As much as I vehemently argue with the two of you, (and NVS) I know intuitively in my heart, what fine, concerned, compassionate men you are. What I dig about politics is the goal of consensus. We're all shaped by differing environments, experiences, theology's, and geographical locales. Yet a democracy learns to give and take for the betterment of all. God bless.
And BTW: Most importantly, we're all huge sports fans.
Holy shit...Pabst was abducted by aliens over the weekend!!!
Or maybe being a fiance suits and soothes him
.Peace,
RS