Middle East Meltdown and US Foreign Policy.

Quote from bsmeter2:

How do you know the holohoax really happen? Is it based on what the zionist controlled media tells you every f'n day or did you do actual research from independent sources to verify their alleged numbers? Why don't we hear about the millions of Gypsies who also Died? or the millions of Poles?! Where are those "memorials". All we hear every F**KING day in every F**CKING western media outlet is how many "poor widdle jews" died.
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We see bsmeter shuffling down the street, mumbling to himself. He picks a cigarette butt out of the gutter, and eats it.

He sees a young couple in love, a bird in the sky, the leaves on the trees.

'It's the JEWS!!', he screeches. 'It's the GODDAMN JEWS!!'.

Then he defecates in his pants.
 
Quote from bsmeter2:

How do you know the holohoax really happen? Is it based on what the zionist controlled media tells you every f'n day or did you do actual research from independent sources to verify their alleged numbers? Why don't we hear about the millions of Gypsies who also Died? or the millions of Poles?! Where are those "memorials". All we hear every F**KING day in every F**CKING western media outlet is how many "poor widdle jews" died.
More...

We see bsmeter alone, in his bachelor apartment. 425 pounds, atherosclerotic, unwashed, alcoholic. His opportunities squandered, he looks for someone or something to blame.

'It was the JEWS!!', he screeches. 'It was the GODDAMN JEWS who are responsible for my lot in life!!'

Then, sitting at the computer, he loses control of his bowels. He is too obese to realize it, and thinks that he has passed gas. He blames the Jews for the stench.
 
Quote from southamerica:

Sudan has been going through a holocaust and we also watch it on the news and very few people are doing anything about to stop the killing in Sudan.

And I have news for you – if another holocaust happens to the Jewish people the entire world it will just watch on television in the same way we did with Tibet, Cambodia, Rwanda, Congo, and Sudan since the 1950’s

Why do you think anybody else cares about the Jewish holocaust (Other than the Jews) an event that has happened a very long time ago – when in reality the global population it does nothing to stop even the current holocausts that are under way today?
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you might find it of interest that my posts were a
response to this:
Quote from humpy:

The obvious question that nobody ever seems to ask is why ?
Why have the Jews been persecuted since the time of Moses and probably before ??????????????????
The follow on obvious question is what have they learnt from these unpleasant experiences ?????????????
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to see an answer without looking at the question will
not be too enlightening.

regarding your own postings here i would like to say
something about your point of view and the way you
are using this very view within the discussion.
the thread as such has the title "Middle East Metldown
and US Foreign Policy", which cleary indicates which
region of the world will be the focus of interest and
which others will be not. now you bring in other
countries, other regions, other times in order to make
your point that the shoa (as the jews call the holocaust)
was nothing so special and is heavily overrated in all
discussions. by saying: let us not discuss the shoa so
much, since we do not talk about the other tragedies,
you somehow discredit the topic of the jewish drama,
since you very well know that within this thread we
won't discuss these other dramas in length. so the
topic is dropped. at the very place where it is central
to the topic at hand.

there IS heavy discussion around the world regarding
africa.
there IS heavy discussion around the world on tibet.
there IS massive discussion of people like pinochet
and other dictators.
and there IS justified heavy discussion about the best
organised, technically perfect executed disaster within
the heart of what is called the civilised world.

you will not find too many people diminshing the drama
of others claiming the jewish as the main or only
one. yet, if you do not see the speciality of their
tragedy over thousands of years, then i'd say you
are among many others out there. and i do not have
to go in detail which their main principles of thinking
or political convictions are.

this "i am tired of this discussion" is a strange way
of thinking. i am personally not tired of the fact that
there is still lectures on mathematics at school, going
on year after year after year. when i learned all about
it i simply do not attend any longer. thinking that they
should stop teaching once i am done is ... weird. or
my motivation to claim that comes from somewhere
else. then things make perfect sense again.
 
Yes well. Man seems to have completely lost the central point of my question. He doesn’t even try to answer it or understand it. I object to being called an Anti-Semite, especially after being careful to be neutral, but no matter, let’s press on. Name calling won’t get us any further along the road to enlightenment.
I am not denying the fact that the holocaust happened . In fact I have been personally to what’s left of the Bergen/Belsen camp. And even stayed 2 nights in the Commandant’s house, but that is another story. Oh yes it happened alright. The question I was putting is WHY ?
Strangely enough in Man’s post there is a faint glimmer of an answer there, though I doubt it was his intention to say so.
Since it keeps happening - the WHY of it, I would have thought extremely important to anyone of Jewish origin. Understand that and maybe something can be done about it. Maybe even about the Middle East problem. What with the proliferation of nuclear weapons Armageddon is an increasingly likely scenario.
Some more answers may be forthcoming from looking at the causes of other persecutions – the Templars for example !!
 
.

Man: regarding your own postings here i would like to say something about your point of view and the way you are using this very view within the discussion.the thread as such has the title "Middle East Meltdown and US Foreign Policy", which cleary indicates which region of the world will be the focus of interest and which others will be not. now you bring in other countries, other regions, other times in order to make your point that the shoa (as the jews call the holocaust) was nothing so special and is heavily overrated in all discussions.


*************


December 19, 2006

SouthAmerica: Yes, this thread title is “Middle East Meltdown and US Foreign Policy.”

It is ironic that we are discussing that mess from the Jewish position on all this including the holocaust and everything else.

But if we discuss this topic from a United States position and the self-interest of the United States regarding US foreign policy around the world then it is another story.

Then we come to the real relevant questions from a US point of view:

1) Why is the United States is burning so much clout, prestige, and wasting so much borrowed money on the Middle East when its real self interest as a nation it is about “OIL” and nothing else.

2) Now we come to the second question: Why is the United States backing up Israel in the Middle East when it makes a thousand times more sense to be in the side of the Arab states and the Palestinian people?

I am sure that if the United States had been on the side of the Arabs all these years then the radical Arabs would not have the need to come to the United States and blow up buildings with airplanes as they did in 9/11.

By siding with Israel the United States is infuriating the very people who are supplying almost 50 percent of US energy (OIL) and also all these trillions of US dollars of recycled oil money that have been invested in the US by the Arab countries.

In terms of United States foreign policy it does not make any sense to back up Israel in the Middle East – and that policy is not costing the US loss of clout and prestige only in that area of the world – that policy is destroying US clout and prestige everywhere around the world.

It is a terrible policy and the only reason that the United States continues to sink in quicksand is because the Jewish Lobby is very powerful in the United States and they are able to convince Americans to stick with a losing proposition such as is the case of US policy regarding the Middle East.

The United States unconditional support to Israel in the Middle East is creating a situation that is snowballing in the Middle East – and everybody knows what happens to you when you are standing on quicksand.

If you want to bring Hebrew history to support your case of why the United States should support Israel – but that is crazy since at best we are talking about a very small group of people who grew to at most 50,000 people by 721 BC – who had a brief history from 2,000 BC to 721 BC.

Based on that the Hebrews wanted to reclaim by 1948 the land their ancestors had lost 2,700 years ago.

The entire world has changed since 721 BC, and many other groups of people over the years got kicked out of their lands by other groups of people including the native Indian peoples who used to populate the Americas from North to South.

As a US foreign policy based on self-interest and also on a rational level it makes no sense for the United States to give the unconditional support that it has been giving Israel for a long time.

It is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let’s review one more time: the claims that the Hebrew people has over the land of Israel.

Here is the “History of the Hebrews” in a nutshell:

Around the year 2,000 BC Abraham (the founder of the Jewish religion) is supposed to have migrated with his family into Canaan.

Egypt's king, Ramses II, is now thought to have reigned between 1290-1224 B.C. – this is supposed to be the time when Moses lived and the Jews had their Exodus from Egypt.

At this point they were lost in the desert for 40 years then they managed to find the Promised Land. That brings us to estimate the birth of the Promised Land to around the year 1,180 BC.

King David – Goliath and so on is supposed to have happened around the year 1,050 BC.

In 970 BC King David is succeeded by his son Solomon.

In 721 BC the Assyrians overrun Israel, disperses the Israelites and takes thousands as slaves. Israel as a nation vanishes.


***


Now let us put the spotlight on all this information and try to put it on a more realistic perspective looking back from today.

Around the time of Abraham – this is where Hebrew history starts – the total world population is estimated to have been around 27 million people – and demographers know that 70 % of the population at that time were living in China and in India. That leaves about 8 million people to populate the rest of the world.

I guess at that time Abraham is just starting the Hebrew lineage.

Then we go to Moses time and the Exodus. Total world population is estimated to be around 45 million people around the year 1,200 BC. Again 70 % of the total is living in China and in India – that leaves about 14 million people scattered around the world.

Is it possible that this Exodus from Egypt involved less that 5,000 people? If we want to stretch even further since these people were supposed to be building Pyramids then let’s says there were 10,000 people who left Egypt with Moses in the Exodus. (I can’t imagine 10,000 people being lost in the desert for 40 years, but again…)

Let’s go now to the year 721 BC when the Assyrians overruns Israel, disperses the Israelites and takes thousands as slaves. Israel as a nation vanishes. The year 721 BC is the end of old Israel, until Israel it is recreated by the British in 1948.

In 721 BC the total world population is estimated to be around 80 million people. Again 70 % of the total is living in China and in India – that leaves about 12 million people scattered around the world.

Is it possible that the Israel that were destroyed in 721 BC had no more than 50,000 people living in that area of the world in small villages raging in size from a few hundred people to maybe 2,000 or 3,000 people?

Can anyone on his right mind justify the mess in the Middle East based on this story of a very small group of people who happen to have lived a long time ago?


.
 
Quote from southamerica:

.But if we discuss this topic from a United States position and the self-interest of the United States regarding US foreign policy around the world then it is another story.
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That's right, appeasing a violent and aggressive ideology (like Islam today) has been an increadibly successful time tested strategy thoughout the history, hasn't it? Betraying and backstabbing friends and allies, supporting those with OIL, not those who are right has always been considered the best approach to earn respect and gain political dividends. And of course if it was not for Israel, Iran would not have had a war with Iraq, Saddam Hussein would not have invaded Kuwait, Osama would have forgiven the presence of our troops in Saudi Arabia and would not have killed 3000 americans. If it was not for Israel the terror attacks, massacres and riots in Yugoslavia, India, France, Danmark, Chechnya, Sudan, Rwanda and other places would not have happened.

Too bad you are missing one simple thing, the common denominator is not the jews, the common denominator is not the only real secular democracy in the middle east, the common denominator is Islam and muslims and anyone with a brain realizes that Israel would not be the end of the world's trouble, it would only be the beginning.

And btw regardless of the US support, Israel will not go quietly, as you know it's a nuclear power and they will use it if they have to, so if you do care about oil you better make sure that Israel is not threatened or attacked again. Fortunately despite their multiple faults american politicians both republican and democrat understand that much better than clueless journalist wanna-bes like yourself.
 
Quote from Humpy:

Yes well. Man seems to have completely lost the central point of my question. He doesn’t even try to answer it or understand it. ...

... Oh yes it happened alright. The question I was putting is WHY ?
Strangely enough in Man’s post there is a faint glimmer of an answer there, though I doubt it was his intention to say so.

Since it keeps happening - the WHY of it, I would have thought extremely important to anyone of Jewish origin. Understand that and maybe something can be done about it. ...

Some more answers may be forthcoming from looking at the causes of other persecutions – the Templars for example !!
More...
excuse me, sir. what in the post below was "the
central point" that i did not even try to "answer ... or
understand ..."?
Quote from Humpy:
The obvious question that nobody ever seems to ask is why ?
Why have the Jews been persecuted since the time of Moses and probably before ??????????????????
The follow on obvious question is what have they learnt from these unpleasant experiences ?????????????
More...
does the "obvious question" mean what "they",
namely the jews, have learnt from all "these unpleasant
experiences"? is there any room for interpretation
other than "they" had done something, from which
"they" can now learn what do to or not to do in order
to ensure that none of these "unpleasant experiences"
(what a phrase BTW for the shoa) happen again?
so, in short: it is them to do something. or do i still
miss that mysterious central point of your post?

and since you have been so kind detecting my "faint
glimmer of an aswer", would you mind naming it?
 
south america
i respect your post. i see it differently and lean more
towards dddooo in the view that the muslim extremist
is the true obstacle in middle east peace. though i am
not a true expert and open to debate this.
but your post sticked to israel policy and did not appear
to be racist in any way, so i am fine with your position.
nevertheless the US has been profiting a lot from mosaic
influence. i mean, New York City, is heavily formed by
people with jewish background, yet not necessrily
mosaic convictions.

in essence i am personally more afraid of these horny
suicide bombers than of israel rabbis.
 
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