Materialists

Now, #1 I'm pretty solid on because I found those numbers in quite a number of *christian* places.
turok
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The sources you quote are very good and they believe their numbers are correct but there are other figures out there and a lot of disagreement on who is correct.

____________________
Results may vary (widely)

This is almost an impossible task and extending any kind of numbers to come to a conclusion is very risky business.
 
Quote from Doubter:

Now, #1 I'm pretty solid on because I found those numbers in quite a number of *christian* places.
turok
More...

True, but there's a little more to the story, Doubter.

I'll deal with Shoe Myth #1 regarding the explosive growth of Christianity and I'll be straightforward about it, i.e. since I'm the only one who probably has any interest in this topic, I researched both sides of the issue. It actually is much more involved than either side was aware of and so pat answers and statements won't do.

First of all on Turok's side of the argument is David Barrett, arguably the most respected Christian researcher in this area, who projects lower overall growth rates for Christianity. I emphasize overall growth rates as like everyone he sees explosive growth in the Southern Hemisphere.

On my side of the argument are the researchers, though, who see Christianity bursting through these slow growth rate scenarios. How you ask? Well, let me start with a summary of the current estimated international Christian population by continent:

Europe (560 million)
North America (260 million)
Latin America (480 million)
Africa (360 million)
Asia (313 million)
Total: (2 billion)
 
Now the projections all hinder on the bottom three continents. These three continents have seen INCREDIBLE growth rates in the last decades. Some researchers simply project continued rapid growth. One respected researcher, Phillip Jenkinds who is a distinguished professor of history and relgious studies sees the following growth:

Increase in Latin America: 160 million by 2025.
Increase in North America: 40 million by 2025
Increase in Europe: -5 million by 2025.
Increase in Africa: 270 million by 2025.
Increase in Asia: 150 million by 2025.

In other words, he has the world's Christian population increasing by over 600 million people in the next 25 years which is a 30% increase and would beat out Islam. (And notice that he does not forecast large decreases in the post-Christian West either.)
 
Yet another example of arguing via mere assertion.

Care to ACTUALLY PROVIDE these other numbers?


WHY post unsupported statements that carry no weight?
This is a pattern I keep seeing with theists.
They seem to think that if you just SAY something
that its true... or worse, if you can just keep saying something
over and over again, then it really makes it true :D

Welp.... thats not the case. I can call the sky pink with polka
dots and it doesnt make it true.
I can do this for 100 years and it still would never make it true.

SHOW ME THE MONEY! Post the numbers, or accept the rejection
of your unsupported claims.

peace

axeman




Quote from Doubter:

Now, #1 I'm pretty solid on because I found those numbers in quite a number of *christian* places.
turok
_____________________________________________

The sources you quote are very good and they believe their numbers are correct but there are other figures out there and a lot of disagreement on who is correct.

____________________
Results may vary (widely)

This is almost an impossible task and extending any kind of numbers to come to a conclusion is very risky business.
More...
 
Are his numbers reasonable? Well, of course, it depends on your viewpoint. I think they are and here's just a few stats why:

1. According to researcher David Barrett, author of the well-respected World Christian Encyclopedia, Africa is gaining 8.4 million new Christians a year, and that number is a net total -- that is, new converts minus those who leave the faith
2. Again, according to Barrett around 90 million Christians have been added in Communist China and 15 million in India (almost entirely w/o Western missionaries).
3, In 1920, Korea only had 300,000 Christians, but now there are currently 10 to 12 million believers within South Korea only.
4. Latin America is similar where whole countries have been drastically transformed by the surge of new Christian believers.

So this Shoe Myth boils down to the following: do you believe that the growth rate Christianity has experienced over the last 20-30 years is sustainable? Do you believe that the birth rate in Islamic coutries will outstrip Christian? Do you believe in a more rapid decline of Christianity in the West?

Of course, noone knows the answer to those questions....
 
So my response to Shoe Myth #1:

1. I was justified in saying that Christianity is experiencing explosive growth.
2. I was unjustified in saying that Christianity is the fastest growing religion on the planet. The jury is still out on that. Of course, I'm rooting for my team! :D
 
Quote from axeman:

Yet another example of arguing via mere assertion.

Care to ACTUALLY PROVIDE these other numbers?
More...

I did. See above and below you and you can make your own decision...
 
Shoe,

Do you even REALIZE you just admitted Turok is 100%
correct on issue #1?????????

The statement:
"see Christianity bursting through these slow growth rate scenarios."

IS AN ADMISSION that there is currently NO explosive growth rate.

Then YOUR researchers go on to make fabulous **FUTURE PREDICTIONS**.


But YOUR claim was NOT of **future** explosive growth rates.

Oh no... YOUR claim was there *IS* explosive growth in
christianity and Turok shot that down, and your own
researchers comments just ADMITTED it.

I think you just conceded issue #1.


peace

axeman



Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

On my side of the argument are the researchers, though, who see Christianity bursting through these slow growth rate scenarios.[/b]
More...
 
No... you provided LOCAL numbers and future predictions.

Besides...I wasnt asking you, I was asking DOUBTER who
attempted to challenge Turoks initial global numbers
with an UNSUPPORTED assertion.

peace

axeman



Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

I did. See above and below you and you can make your own decision...
More...
 
Quote from axeman:

Shoe,

Do you even REALIZE you just admitted Turok is 100%
correct on issue #1?????????
More...

First of all, I am definitely justified in saying that Christianity is experiencing explosive growth in the Southern Hemisphere. But, secondly, 600 million new believers on the overall planet in 25 years is explosive growth by almost anyone's definition.

Keep in mind this researcher is not predicting a decline of 600 million anywhere else on planet earth. This is 600 million net growth. You may not call that explosive, but I do! Again, it's all semantics, but I feel perfectly justified in my claim. Time will tell of course!
 
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