Materialists

Quote from Turok:

I'm sorry I don't have more time. We will get back to this but I have to catch a plane to Baltimore.

As a simple demonstration of how spastic your debating style is, I will leave you with two of your own quotes from the last few hours. These quote diametrically oppose each other.

First, your quote from a few hours ago regarding the numbers that I produced:

Shoe:
>First of all on Turok's side of the argument is David
>Barrett, arguably the most respected Christian researcher
>in this area, who projects lower overall growth rates
>for Christianity.

And now your quote from a few minutes ago:

>I think it's nothing but sour grapes on the part of your
>more liberal researcher. He sees virtually flat growth
>among the atheists and tries to twist the numbers for
>the religious communites as well!

A few hours ago, in your own words David Barrett was one of the most respected Christian researchers in his field. Now a few hours later he is nothing but a "liberal researcher" who for reasons of "sour grapes" is "twisting the numbers". My what a switch.

Forget for a moment whose numbers are right or wrong. YOU has some very real reality problems my friend.

JB
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Aarrgghh! Please read my post. I did not say that David Barrett was saying flat or declining growth. I said lower growth. If you know somewhere where David Barrett says flat or declining growth, then post it. But I don't and I didn't say that.

First I have stu saying there's no Lunar Event when it's plastered all over the internet and now I've got you saying that 600 million new Christians is not "explosive growth"!

You guys are driving me crazy today! Did I miss out? Is this National Antagonize a Theist Day or something?
 
This is doubly irritating because I had the decency to present both sides of the arguments and do YOUR research for you. Then you jump all over me and say that I'm "spastic" and going back and forth.

Remind me not to help any more! I'll do what you guys do - doggedly present my side of the argument and stick to it to the death...
 
Quote from stu:

NThey SHARE the same core God of the old testement.
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as this thread has now well established the allegorical nature of the writings, i trust it is not necessary to go through the laborious process of showing how two groups can claim share a common book - and end up in completely different places. the jewish conception of g-d is completely different from the c'ian one - even Shoe would agree that, since (according to him) c'ians have a common perception of g-d and jews don't.

apart from that, you are missing a very fundamental point: Torah/Tanakh are not scripture to jews in the sense c'ians generally claim they are scripture to them. they are, in fact, arguably the least important part of Jewish tradition. so we do not, in fact, share a common scriptural base with c'ianity.

They share a load of core religious history!
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...you are missing the point. i did not say there aren't similarities between judaism and c'ianity. what i said was the similiarities between the two are no greater than the similarities between judaism and any number of other faiths.

very big difference.

if you had said "islamo christo jewish", you would have more leg to stand on.

The very fact that a religionist manifests devotion to a deity makes them a religionist.
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yes, i understand, and this is where your definition falls apart. you are willing to accept some Jews as religionists because they do affirm belief in a deity but you then cannot accept Judaism as a religion because it does NOT require such a belief.

so if Jews are religionists but Judaism is not a religion, then what exactly are they religionists of?
 
Shoe:
>I think it's nothing but sour grapes on the part of your
>more liberal researcher. He sees virtually flat growth
>among the atheists and tries to twist the numbers for
>the religious communites as well!

Who is my researcher Shoe?

JB
 
Maybe this will help. I can only hope.

I put the incremental values and current totals in one post by Jenkins. Below I am putting them all together in one post:

Current World christian Population Totals:
Europe (560 million)
North America (260 million)
Latin America (480 million)
Africa (360 million)
Asia (313 million)
Total: (2 billion)

Increase in Latin America: 160 million by 2025.
Increase in North America: 40 million by 2025
Increase in Europe: -5 million by 2025.
Increase in Africa: 270 million by 2025.
Increase in Asia: 150 million by 2025.

2025 World christian Population Totals:
Europe (555 million)
North America (300 million)
Latin America (640 million)
Africa (630 million)
Asia (460 million)
Total: (2.6 billion)

Now tell me how this is not stellar growth by anyone's definition?!?
 
Those are very nice numbers Shoe. Wanna see the stellar explosive growth numbers for the hedge fund I am opening this morning.

Todays fund value. $1,000,000
2025 fund value. 1,000,000,000

Stellar returns don't you think?

Get the connection? You didn't say "The explosive growth in Christianity WILL COME almost entirely from the..." OR "The PREDICTED explosive growth..."

You said. (emphasis mine)

>The explosive growth in Christianity IS COMING
>almost entirely from the evangelic (and of course
>charismatic) communities.

Clearly past/present tense.

Only you are falling for your routine.

JB


Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Maybe this will help. I can only hope.

I put the incremental values and current totals in one post by Jenkins. Below I am putting them all together in one post:

Current World christian Population Totals:
Europe (560 million)
North America (260 million)
Latin America (480 million)
Africa (360 million)
Asia (313 million)
Total: (2 billion)

Increase in Latin America: 160 million by 2025.
Increase in North America: 40 million by 2025
Increase in Europe: -5 million by 2025.
Increase in Africa: 270 million by 2025.
Increase in Asia: 150 million by 2025.

2025 World christian Population Totals:
Europe (555 million)
North America (300 million)
Latin America (640 million)
Africa (630 million)
Asia (460 million)
Total: (2.6 billion)

Now tell me how this is not stellar growth by anyone's definition?!?
More...
 
Quote from Turok:

Shoe:
>I think it's nothing but sour grapes on the part of your
>more liberal researcher. He sees virtually flat growth
>among the atheists and tries to twist the numbers for
>the religious communites as well!

Who is my researcher Shoe?

JB
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If you are claiming that it is David Barrett, I don't see it on the link. The only thing I see is a citation of US Center for World Mission, another organization I respect, that estimates annual 2.3% growth rates for Christianity!

This growth rate is very close to Jenkins' who I cited above. The only reference I see that cites negative growth is the UK Christian Handbook.

But, again, how anyone claim that the explosive growth in the Southern Hemisphere is suddenly going to stop is beyond me!
 
Who is my researcher Shoe?


Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

If you are claiming that it is David Barrett, I don't see it on the link. The only thing I see is a citation of US Center for World Mission, another organization I respect, that estimates annual 2.3% growth rates for Christianity!

This growth rate is very close to Jenkins' who I cited above. The only reference I see that cites negative growth is the UK Christian Handbook.

But, again, how anyone claim that the explosive growth in the Southern Hemisphere is suddenly going to stop is beyond me!
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Quote from Turok:

Those are very nice numbers Shoe. Wanna see the stellar explosive growth numbers for the hedge fund I am opening this morning.

Todays fund value. $1,000,000
2025 fund value. 1,000,000,000

Stellar returns don't you think?
JB
More...

There's a fundamental error in your ridiculous example. Christianity has thirty years of stellar growth as a track record! There is no reason to think it won't continue.

You, unless there's something you're not telling us, have not been a successful hedge fund manager for the last thirty years.

So please choose an example that actually illustrates your point.
 
Simple.

Here is an analogy to help you with your math skills.


There is a population of frogs and turtles in a lake.
There are 5 turtles.
There are 5 frogs.
50% of the population is frogs.
50% of the population is turtles.


5 years go by and now there are:
10 turtles
100 frogs

The turtle population increased by 200%!

However, the bigger picture shows that:
There are now only 9% turtles.
And there are 91% frogs.

The turtles are now outnumbered 10 to 1.

Would you say there has been an EXPLOSIVE growth
in turtles? Or would you say the turtles have clearly
lost ground to the frogs?


If you are consistent, you would claim EXPLOSIVE
turtle growth, when clearly, their PERCENTAGE numbers
have been destroyed.



Here is the problem Shoe.
1) You avoid the BIG picture while focusing on smaller subsets of growth
2) You use ABSOLUTE terms, when percentage terms are the correct
way to measure growth as compared to the entire population.
3) You use "future predictions" instead of dealing with what
has already historically happened, which is DECLINE/FLATNESS.

Turoks positions still stands unscathed. You have NEVER
refuted the fact that the christian population ON PERCENTAGE
terms are LOSING ground GLOBALLY.

Not in one place...but OVERALL globally.



peace

axeman








Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Maybe this will help. I can only hope.

I put the incremental values and current totals in one post by Jenkins. Below I am putting them all together in one post:

Current World christian Population Totals:
Europe (560 million)
North America (260 million)
Latin America (480 million)
Africa (360 million)
Asia (313 million)
Total: (2 billion)

Increase in Latin America: 160 million by 2025.
Increase in North America: 40 million by 2025
Increase in Europe: -5 million by 2025.
Increase in Africa: 270 million by 2025.
Increase in Asia: 150 million by 2025.

2025 World christian Population Totals:
Europe (555 million)
North America (300 million)
Latin America (640 million)
Africa (630 million)
Asia (460 million)
Total: (2.6 billion)

Now tell me how this is not stellar growth by anyone's definition?!?
More...
 
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