Lupus patients are not getting sick from CCP virus

[jem]

GWB - it looks me you modified your statement to include the words "severely ill"

"I will what I stated earlier - the initial results of a NY trial on severely ill patients does not appear to be promising (less than a week in based on unverified medical commentary) but there at least needs to be another month of testing to provide a sizable sample of patients with full results before any conclusions can be made."

vs...


"So far the results do not appear to be promising (less than a week in based on unverified medical commentary) but there at least needs to be another month of testing to provide a sizable sample of patients with full results."

You may have been thinking about the critically ill, so to you it may seem to be a similar statement, but to me that is a critical distinction...in terms of lives,and in terms of risk of collapse and in terms of when we should reopen the economy.


If Hydroxy / zpack/ zinc helps the non severely ill then we will be able to bring the economy back online much sooner. If we don't have a therapy for the non severely ill we will be going through cycles of shutdown until we have a therapy or a cure.

 

[Dr. Love]

I get Donald Trump is very focused on the chloroquine approach but that does not mean there are not other approaches and meds and vaccines being tested right now.

The chloroquine issue has become more of a cult movement than anything else. Its crazy this has become such a singular focus.

Yes, there are good studies going on right now for this and other drugs, and existing vaccines, and plasma therapies too.

Agree. There are reports the combo can affect the heart too, but we don't know if this is from the combo or the virus. If we have to wait for Remsdivir to become available at a large scale, that is going to cost a lot of more jobs and businesses to go bankrupt. We are learning what dealing with an unknown pathogen looks like. I have to say that if this is the true extent of its malignancy, we got very lucky, it could have easily been a lot worse. But we are not out of it yet.

 

[gwb-trading]

GWB - it looks me you modified your statement to include the words "severely ill"

"I will what I stated earlier - the initial results of a NY trial on severely ill patients does not appear to be promising (less than a week in based on unverified medical commentary) but there at least needs to be another month of testing to provide a sizable sample of patients with full results before any conclusions can be made."

vs...


"So far the results do not appear to be promising (less than a week in based on unverified medical commentary) but there at least needs to be another month of testing to provide a sizable sample of patients with full results."


Now I am not trying to be a jerk here... but to me that is a critical difference...in terms of lives,and in terms of risk of collapse.


If Hydroxy / zpack/ zinc helps the non severely ill then we will be able to bring the economy back online much sooner. If we don't have a therapy for the non severely ill we will be going through cycles of shutdown until we have a therapy or a cure.

I apologize if there was any misunderstanding. In view that the studies in NYC and Long Island only cover severely ill patients who were hospitalized - I thought the context would be understood. Especially since the first post also contained - "I will note the most effective therapy for severely ill COVID-19 patients to date appears to be laying them on their stomachs rather than their backs." (underline added for emphasis)

I will note that there are no results from a reputable medical study showing results for the treatment of mildly ill COVID-19 patients with hydroxchloroquine. Note that "Dr. Raoult" out of Marseille is merely a pitchman who had his previous COVID-19 treatment assertions removed as unqualified by the medical community & journals. His other "research" prior COVID-19 had the same problems where is "results" showed 1"00% effectivity" but no follow-up medical study could re-produce the results.

We are several weeks away from any conclusive research results on using hydroxchloroquine to treat COVID-19. Hopefully it is proven to help; but it should not be pitched by politicians and media pundits as the "cure" when there is no current reliable medical study evidence supporting that it is even helpful.

 

[Dr. Love]

I apologize if there was any misunderstanding. In view that the studies in NYC and Long Island only cover severely ill patients who were hospitalized - I thought the context would be understood. Especially since the first post also contained - "I will note the most effective therapy for severely ill COVID-19 patients to date appears to be laying them on their stomachs rather than their backs." (underline added for emphasis)

I will note that there are no results from a reputable medical study showing results for the treatment of mildly ill COVID-19 patients with hydroxchloroquine. Note that "Dr. Raoult" out of Marseille is merely a pitchman who had his previous COVID-19 treatment assertions removed as unqualified by the medical community & journals. His other "research" prior COVID-19 had the same problems where is "results" showed 1"00% effectivity" but no follow-up medical study could re-produce the results.

We are several weeks away from any conclusive research results on using hydroxchloroquine to treat COVID-19. Hopefully it is proven to help; but it should not be pitched by politicians and media pundits as the "cure" when there is no current reliable medical study evidence supporting that it is even helpful.

Can you show me evidence Trump said this was a 'cure'?

 

[UsualName]

Can you show me evidence Trump said this was a 'cure'?

Trump has put an emphasis on chloroquine because he is desperate to find a way out of this. The problem with this is it has an effect on the weak minded like @Buy1Sell2 and causes them to believe in things they don’t understand and they spread around false information. As we see in this thread.

So whether or not Trump has said this is a cure isn’t the damage he’s done. The damage is the misinformation he put into the public and the chaos it’s causing at an already chaotic time.

Every reasonable caution from people like @gwb-trading is met with hostility when all he is doing is bringing an informed and measured analysis.

 

[Dr. Love]

Trump has put an emphasis on chloroquine because he is desperate to find a way out of this. The problem with this is it has an effect on the weak minded like @Buy1Sell2 and causes them to believe in things they don’t understand and they spread around false information. As we see in this thread.

So whether or not Trump has said this is a cure isn’t the damage he’s done. The damage is the misinformation he put into the public and the chaos it’s causing at an already chaotic time.

I think he is giving hope to the nation. It might back fire, but that is what you do when want to uplift a population from extreme fear to this virus, which is not unwarranted.

I have seen many real stories from people who thought that they were going to die, that recuperated within days of taking this combo.

We will find out shortly if this stuff works and if does, when it is most effective, if at all.

 

[jem]

you are correct Trump is desperate to get America open again because he knows what a prolonged shutdown is doing to business. He is a businessman. It's good that he is desperate.
I found Fauci's and the left's lack of concern or discussion of the economic consequences to be be disconcerting. I understand it... but I am glad someone in govt is worried about the economic impact.

It was not Trump but the left who polarized this issue.
it should have been about weighing the pandemic vs experimental potential solutions. Minds can differ on that subject without being monsters.

Instead the left painted Trump as a monster for backing an experimental treatment.
The trolls here in unison came after those of us who said lets give it a shot because there is anecdotal evidence.

Although you are not a troll... you in fact started off with ad homs directed at me even though I was not even having a conversation with you.

The left polarized this and everything else about Trump.


Even if it turns out Hydroxy and a zpak and / or zinc don't work... It was worth try.
Trump was desperate to re-open the economy.. Calling him a monster for tying is deranged.

Trump has put an emphasis on chloroquine because he is desperate to find a way out of this. The problem with this is it has an effect on the weak minded like @Buy1Sell2 and causes them to believe in things they don’t understand and they spread around false information. As we see in this thread.

So whether or not Trump has said this is a cure isn’t the damage he’s done. The damage is the misinformation he put into the public and the chaos it’s causing at an already chaotic time.

Every reasonable caution from people like @gwb-trading is met with hostility when all he is doing is bringing an informed and measured analysis.

 

[gwb-trading]

Let's see what the Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR) stated regarding hydroxchloroquine in the past 24 hours. Located in New Delphi and funded by the government, the Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR), New Delhi, the apex body in India for the formulation, coordination and promotion of biomedical research, is one of the oldest medical research bodies in the world.

Keep in mind that India is one of the world's largest manufacturers of hydroxchloroquine and has to-date used it on the largest number of people experimentally for COVID-19.

Hydroxychloroquine Not To Be Used As COVID-19 Cure: Top Medical Body
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/cor...s-covid-19-cure-top-medical-body-icmr-2210206

The only good news in the announcement is that hydroxchloroquine can still be trialed as a preventative but not a cure.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

Are the Indians using or testing hydroxy plus azithromycin plus zinc or just hydroxy?

Same old dilemma.

 

[gwb-trading]

Are the Indians using or testing hydroxy plus azithromycin plus zinc or just hydroxy?

Same old dilemma.

Just like in the U.S and Europe - they have tested several combinations. The primary issue with India is that there has mainly been uncontrolled use by individuals, doctors, and hospitals across the population rather than any proper studies (at least from a preventative perspective).

The statement from ICMR that hydroxchloroquine can still be trialed as a preventative is probably due to the mass use of it across the population with no evidence in either direction if it works (or does not). Due to this the Indian government was not going to step in with any guidance (nor could they really stop it seeing the large & common availability of hydroxchloroquine).

The ICMR statement regarding using hydroxchloroquine as a cure is probably related to more controlled studies in hospital settings with obviously COVID-19 afflicted patients. Nothing from any of the studies in India appear to support any of the hydroxchloroquine therapy combinations being an effective cure - therefore the ICMR guidance to doctors is not to use it as a cure.