Lupus patients are not getting sick from CCP virus

gwb-trading said:
Just like in the U.S and Europe - they have tested several combinations. The primary issue with India is that there has mainly been uncontrolled use by individuals, doctors, and hospitals across the population rather than any proper studies (at least from a preventative perspective).

The statement from ICMR that hydroxchloroquine can still be trialed as a preventative is probably due to the mass use of it across the population with no evidence in either direction if it works (or does not). Due to this the Indian government was not going to step in with any guidance (nor could they really stop it seeing the large & common availability of hydroxchloroquine).

The ICMR statement regarding using hydroxchloroquine as a cure is probably related to more controlled studies in hospital settings with obviously COVID-19 afflicted patients. Nothing from any of the studies in India appear to support any of the hydroxchloroquine therapy combinations being an effective cure - therefore the ICMR guidance to doctors is not to use it as a cure.
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I see that India is already charging ahead with plasma antibody transfusions, just as the U.S is and seem to be reporting good results.

Good. I just want to see researchers leaning into solutions that don't end in "but that is 12-18 months away." The antibody transfer thing is already being done fairly close to where I am and in several other cities around the country. Just needs more recovering covid patients to get their antibodies. Fortunately/unfortunately there is not and will not be any shortage of recovering patients. If that picks up speed to the point where it diminishes interest in hydroxy then then fine. I am outcome oriented kind of guy. Lots of things catch my interest, but in the end they need to deliver.

On the other hand, as discussed, I don't approach this or any other medical condition in a binary manner where it either cures or does not cure. The word "cure" is not even part of the discussion for me. Lots of medicines in treatements only alleviate the condition 20% or so and from there the patient and doctor can choose whether they want to add it to their regimen. Does the z-pack approach "cure" covid? Most likely not. But does it help to the point where the patients fever of 103 would have been 105 and where they can get by on a respirator rather than a ventilator? We dont really know. I know that Trump is not approaching it that way, but I am not Trump.
 
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Dr. Love said:
I think he is giving hope to the nation. It might back fire, but that is what you do when want to uplift a population from extreme fear to this virus, which is not unwarranted.

I have seen many real stories from people who thought that they were going to die, that recuperated within days of taking this combo.

We will find out shortly if this stuff works and if does, when it is most effective, if at all.
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Telling people to try something that is not understood does not help anyone. It is irresponsible for Trump to be doing that from behind the presidential podium.

Patients and doctors have to work this stuff out and if Trump is corrupting a significant number of patients they may not get the best treatment available.

Look at the zealotry associated with this issue. People are pushing this drug so hard when there are a number of other potentially promising treatments American doctors (the best in the world) are working on.

But, I have to state again because I know it’s coming, I am not against chloroquine.
 
UsualName said:
Telling people to try something that is not understood does not help anyone. It is irresponsible for Trump to be doing that from behind the presidential podium.

Patients and doctors have to work this stuff out and if Trump is corrupting a significant number of patients they may not get the best treatment available.

Look at the zealotry associated with this issue. People are pushing this drug so hard when there are a number of other potentially promising treatments American doctors (the best in the world) are working on.

But, I have to state again because I know it’s coming, I am not against chloroquine.
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Your first sentence is false. There are plenty of people who were about to die that were saved by Trump pushing this. 87% of doctors (iirc) say this is the preferred treatment of choice.

What we don't know is when and how and for whom it works. That is a different question.
 
Dr. Love said:
Your first sentence is false. There are plenty of people who were about to die that were saved by Trump pushing this. 87% of doctors (iirc) say this is the preferred treatment of choice.

What we don't know is when and how and for whom it works. That is a different question.
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In clinical trials when a participant has a recovery without a medical explanation because they were given a placebo or the drug being studied was found to be ineffective its called the Lazarus effect. Nobody really knows why this happens. Maybe the patient was going to recover the whole time, maybe hope changed their biological chemistry, maybe they were the one right patient for the drug. It’s really unknown.

The point is that without a controlled study anecdotal evidence needs to be taken as a starting point, not an end point. Trump is being guided by desperation. He is in way over his head intellectually on this. Most of us are. He wants a miracle cure or for Covid to disappear magically because this is a cluster fuck of a disaster we were not prepared for.

This is a disaster many people are still in denial about and the way out isn’t even clear either because we still do not have a robust testing and containment strategy. These are all things we need federal leadership on and there is none. We are being led by a policy of what do you have to lose. So the strategy is take this drug no one really understands and hope it goes away by summer. But what happens after summer and we know about the effectiveness of the drug?
 
UsualName said:
we still do not have a robust testing and containment strategy. These are all things we need federal leadership on and there is none. We are being led by a policy of what do you have to lose. So the strategy is take this drug no one really understands and hope it goes away by summer. But what happens after summer and we know about the effectiveness of the drug?
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Yeah. And if Trump issued martial law for 30 days.... holy moly would the left go friggin nuts on that. Face it, no matter what he does, he's wrong. I mean call a spade a spade dude. That's the way it is. The guy can do nothing right in the eyes of those that despise him. Talk about politics.

And these drugs... without looking, since they treat Malaria, they've probably been around for decades and all contraindications, side effects etc... are probably pretty well known. Not sure what you're even talking about. If it works it works, if it doesn't oh well.... but we know the risks of the drug. Pretty sure.
 
San Diego has not come close to the projected ramp.
Newsome may have done a great job for SF...


but was the shutdown too drastic for San Diego?

We have proof they have not timed the ramp well.


Hospitals are laying off nurses we are so under utilizing our capacity.
We may drastic decisions for the entire state when they should have try to customize the ramps for the population.


https://www.nbcsandiego.com/videos/...ff-about-200-employees-including-rns/2303089/
 
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UsualName said:
In clinical trials when a participant has a recovery without a medical explanation because they were given a placebo or the drug being studied was found to be ineffective its called the Lazarus effect. Nobody really knows why this happens. Maybe the patient was going to recover the whole time, maybe hope changed their biological chemistry, maybe they were the one right patient for the drug. It’s really unknown.

The point is that without a controlled study anecdotal evidence needs to be taken as a starting point, not an end point. Trump is being guided by desperation. He is in way over his head intellectually on this. Most of us are. He wants a miracle cure or for Covid to disappear magically because this is a cluster fuck of a disaster we were not prepared for.

This is a disaster many people are still in denial about and the way out isn’t even clear either because we still do not have a robust testing and containment strategy. These are all things we need federal leadership on and there is none. We are being led by a policy of what do you have to lose. So the strategy is take this drug no one really understands and hope it goes away by summer. But what happens after summer and we know about the effectiveness of the drug?
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https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/coronavirus-turkey-hydroxychloroquine-malaria-treatment-progress
 
As a placeholder before making dinner, Australia started a large trial giving hydroxychloroquine to medical staff as a prophylactic. It seems like 10 days ago I heard?

We should look at that.
 
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