Liberals - Why do you support Globalism?

[jem]

protectionism is also the natural result of countries and businessmen attempting to get the upper hand in trade.
why should the U.S. allow its people to be the victims? Free trade is one thing... stupid trade is quite another.

For the record, I don't personally support globalism, per se, but I did want to point out that those criticizing its negative consequences should remember that the process is a natural result of capital seeking a return. If you don't like it, and want to change it, then you're arguing that we should mitigate the harsh edges of capitalism. Welcome aboard!

 

[achilles28]

everything is correct but

u should keep in mind that by debauching they currency they effectively subsidizing our consumers

and so does the 50 cents per hour wages and no regulations

in effect our workers are just not competitive enough.. with our regulations , and very high minimum salaries etc etc

what to do ? our workers should do something 50 cents workers can not do, and produce something what china can and the rest of the world can not produce (that how it was 50 years ago, but not now)

but that means we have to be much more educated than Chinese and the rest of the world (while in fact its the other way around) and we should be ahead of them in what and how we producing...

its very tall order.. but that the only way to be ahead

tariff will not help

yes they will provide employment at expense of downgrading level of life for all Americans.. its a soviet's way.. it does not work if we lakk about making America great again

I wholeheartedly disagree with your conclusions. The trade policies you claim "dont work", are exactly how Japan and China built their dirt-floor economies into Super Powers. There's nothing to debate here. It's like debating if water is wet, or the sky is blue.

America was richer, more prosperous, higher living standards and quality of life before offshoring began. Wages stagnated in the 90's. And if real CPI is used, not the bullshit they feed us today, wages declined the last 20-30 years.

Anyway, much of what you call "prosperity" is debt-fueled spending. After outsourcing began in the late-70's, US went into perpetual deficit. The Federal Government was required to borrow and run a deficit to offset jobs lost from offshoring. That's why the national debt exploded since the 80's. We exported jobs and imported debt. The music will soon stop. Cant borrow and spend indefinitely. See Greece, Portugal, Italy, Spain etc. If that happens here, you're looking at a major depression.

China is where it is today because of our fucking jobs. Trump is coming to bring em back. Regards.

 

[achilles28]

For the record, I don't personally support globalism, per se, but I did want to point out that those criticizing its negative consequences should remember that the process is a natural result of capital seeking a return. If you don't like it, and want to change it, then you're arguing that we should mitigate the harsh edges of capitalism. Welcome aboard!

Yes we should. Nobody believes in anything-goes capitalism. That includes slavery, dumping radioactive heavy water in rivers, lead in aquifers, child sex slaves etc. Nobody supports that.

So lets come back to the table.

 

[achilles28]

protectionism is also the natural result of countries and businessmen attempting to get the upper hand in trade.
why should the U.S. allow its people to be the victims? Free trade is one thing... stupid trade is quite another.

Exactly. It's that simple. Other countries cheat....and have the last 40 years!!! We need to smarten the fuck up and PROTECT our jobs, industry, culture, and country.

Economy is #1. All military strength flows from the economy. Shit economy = shit military.

We burn the furniture to party it up, and guess what, we won't be around long much as a Super Power after that. Maybe the Chicoms can make the rules for us!?!??!??

 

[Frederick Foresight]

you start taking peoples quotes out of context and then replying to the out of context argument.

Bullshit. You can't, or refuse to, follow your own string of Bizarro logic to its natural conclusion. And when you recognize that you are losing an argument, you habitually try to exit via a side door by introducing variables that are not cogent to the focal issue being addressed. You think you're clever, but you're just a slippery reptile.

 

[piezoe]

half trillion dollar trade deficits

see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triffin_dilemma

 

[piezoe]

if real CPI is used, not the bullshit they feed us today, wages declined the last 20-30 years.

Wages in the lower deciles of the middle class declined in constant dollars over the past 35 years even if "the bullshit they feed us today [is used]"

 

[piezoe]

If your currency is stronger you do not necessarily create a trade imbalance.

See:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triffin_dilemma

 

[piezoe]

Although "offshoring" is intimately linked with globalization, it is a relatively minor factor in the decline of the American Middle class. Service sector and other jobs such as in transportation, the prison industry, etc, have to a considerable extent offset the losses in manufacturing jobs.

Among the several factors that have resulted in the decline of the American Middle class, two of the most important are: 1) a severe reduction in income tax bracket progressiveness (part of the push into supply-side economics) in the 1980s -- nearly to the point of reaching a flat tax -- that has since been only partially restored; 2) the compounded effect of ~35 years of taxing unearned income at lower rates than earned. Note that these two factors are linked.

There are additional factors. See, for example: "Capital in the 21st Century", T. Piketty, and "Zombie Economics" J. Quiggin.

 

[Ricter]

Although "offshoring" is intimately linked with globalization, it is a relatively minor factor in the decline of the American Middle class. Service sector and other jobs such as in transportation, the prison industry, etc, have to a considerable extent offset the losses in manufacturing jobs.

Among the several factors that have resulted in the decline of the American Middle class, two of the most important are: 1) a severe reduction in income tax bracket progressiveness (part of the push into supply-side economics) in the 1980s -- nearly to the point of reaching a flat tax -- that has since been only partially restored; 2) the compounded effect of ~35 years of taxing unearned income at lower rates than earned. Note that these two factors are linked.

Additional minor factors include, but are certainly not limited to, regulatory capture, and the skewed impact of inflation on income distribution over the past ~45 years. (See for example: "Capital in the 21st Century", T. Piketty; "Zombie Economics" J. Quiggin.)

No mention of the decline of unionism?