Left skew , being on the wrong side of IQ

[trendlover]

Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Now that's just too funny.

Your link tries unsuccessfully I might add to link NAZI eugenics with modern day IQ testing .
So it's your contention that:

It's these NAZI inspired IQ experts that are documenting for all the world to see that Jews are not inferior but superior to whites in IQ by about the same magnitude that blacks are inferior to whites (in IQ score ) up to 1 standard deviation.

yep them's some mighty peculiar NAZI's there brass.

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Hmm? No. The link poster Brass show you is not saying that.
(IF) you read the link it tell the history of the IQ test.

And the link show this eugenics go from America (TO) Germany.
Chapter 7 from the link.


"Consider the following summary from Edwin Black’s recent history of eugenics, entitled War Against the Weak: Eugenics and America’s Campaign to Create a Master Race.

[Quote from War Against the Weak begins here]

Throughout the first six decades of the twentieth century, hundreds of thousands of Americans and untold numbers of others were not permitted to continue their families by reproducing. Selected because of their ancestry, national origin, race or religion, they were forcibly sterilized, wrongly committed to mental institutions where they died in great numbers, prohibited from marrying, and sometimes even unmarried by state bureaucrats. In America, this battle to wipe out whole ethnic groups was fought not by armies with guns nor by hate sects at the margins. Rather, this pernicious white-gloved war was prosecuted by esteemed professors, elite universities, wealthy industrialists and government officials colluding in a racist, pseudoscientific movement called eugenics. The purpose: create a superior Nordic race.

…The victims of eugenics were poor urban dwellers and rural “white trash” from New England to California, immigrants from across Europe, Blacks, Jews, Mexicans, Native Americans, epileptics, alcoholics, petty criminals, the mentally ill and anyone else who did not resemble the blond and blue-eyed Nordic ideal the eugenics movement glorified.

…Eventually, America’s eugenic movement spread to Germany as well, where it caught the fascination of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi movement. Under Hitler, eugenics careened beyond any American eugenicist’s dream. National Socialism transduced America’s quest for a “superior Nordic race” into Hitler’s drive for an “Aryan master race.” The Nazis were fond of saying “National Socialism is nothing but applied biology,” and in 1934 the Richmond Times-Dispatch quoted a prominent American eugenicist as saying, “The Germans are beating us at our own game.”
http://www.hirhome.com/rr/rrchap7.htm

 

[trendlover]

"I must point out that the two French researchers who invented the measures that became the basis of all IQ testing, Alfred Binet and Theophile Simon, were not racists. Neither were they frauds. But psychologists who indeed were racists used rather dramatic lies to turn the Binet-Simon enterprise upside down.

snip

What is dishonest, however, is to pretend that Alfred Binet and Theophile Simon meant one thing by ‘intelligence’ when in fact they were very careful to say the opposite. And hence the problem. Because what IQ testers have done is convince everybody that the Binet-Simon tests—the basis of all IQ testing—supposedly measure an innate (genetic) and fixed (unalterable) mental ability, even though the authors of these measures defined their construct ‘intelligence’ as stuff learned in a particular culture, at a particular time, which is a diametrically opposite definition."

http://www.hirhome.com/rr/rrchap6.htm

 

[mrbill]

Quote from trendlover:

"I must point out that the two French researchers who invented the measures that became the basis of all IQ testing, Alfred Binet and Theophile Simon, were not racists. Neither were they frauds. But psychologists who indeed were racists used rather dramatic lies to turn the Binet-Simon enterprise upside down.

snip

What is dishonest, however, is to pretend that Alfred Binet and Theophile Simon meant one thing by ‘intelligence’ when in fact they were very careful to say the opposite. And hence the problem. Because what IQ testers have done is convince everybody that the Binet-Simon tests—the basis of all IQ testing—supposedly measure an innate (genetic) and fixed (unalterable) mental ability, even though the authors of these measures defined their construct ‘intelligence’ as stuff learned in a particular culture, at a particular time, which is a diametrically opposite definition."

http://www.hirhome.com/rr/rrchap6.htm

So, are we back to the nature vs. nurture argument ala Trading Places with Eddie Murphy?

 

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from mrbill:

So, are we back to the nature vs. nurture argument ala Trading Places with Eddie Murphy?

No that specifically is not what they are talking about in the material you quoted.

That was a discussion of what were they measuring with their test. genetic intelligence or learned behavior.

This line of questioning among explanation of researchers is beyond stupid it's the logical fallacy of false choice.

Anybody that was paying attention in my 9th grade biology class knows that true genetic intelligence is going to manifest like a reflex.

All that they are testing is indeed learned behavior.
What I will call true genetic learning is demonstrable (9th grade biology) one generation to the next is in training flatworms to perform in a maze.(you can make the offspring prone to turn left , right, avoid light, seek light etc) I don't think there is much evidence that humans transmit learning via this manner.

Now lets get back to this fallacy of false choice.
The easiest way I can put is is in a trading analogy.
hereditary genetic IQ would be like your exponential moving avg say 20 days and your environment would be like bollinger bands around that tendency.

IOW one cannot take advantage of the environment no matter how rich unless the underlying genetics allows it.

Which is EXACTLY what Mav was trying to get through to PIE about down's syndrome babies.

That's why all this focus on special ed is just a lucrative busy work scam for educators. Of course it pays big bucks because of the pity factor whereas 1/5 the money wasted on special ed could actually be better spent on gifted children or better yet (retained by the taxpayer). If you want special education for your lil moron or genius it's up to the parents.

 

[trendlover]

Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

No that specifically is not what they are talking about in the material you quoted.

That was a discussion of what were they measuring with their test. genetic intelligence or learned behavior.

This line of questioning among explanation of researchers is beyond stupid it's the logical fallacy of false choice.

Anybody that was paying attention in my 9th grade biology class knows that true genetic intelligence is going to manifest like a reflex.

All that they are testing is indeed learned behavior.
What I will call true genetic learning is demonstrable (9th grade biology) one generation to the next is in training flatworms to perform in a maze.(you can make the offspring prone to turn left , right, avoid light, seek light etc) I don't think there is much evidence that humans transmit learning via this manner.

Now lets get back to this fallacy of false choice.
The easiest way I can put is is in a trading analogy.
hereditary genetic IQ would be like your exponential moving avg say 20 days and your environment would be like bollinger bands around that tendency.

IOW one cannot take advantage of the environment no matter how rich unless the underlying genetics allows it.

Which is EXACTLY what Mav was trying to get through to PIE about down's syndrome babies.

That's why all this focus on special ed is just a lucrative busy work scam for educators. Of course it pays big bucks because of the pity factor whereas 1/5 the money wasted on special ed could actually be better spent on gifted children or better yet (retained by the taxpayer). If you want special education for your lil moron or genius it's up to the parents.

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And YOU show the benefits of the training and education with your post of flatworms. (IF) flatworms apply to the humans, then YOU prove the benefits of the training and education of ALL people. Is not determined and fixed intelligence.
Why are YOU afraid to let some people learn?

 

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from trendlover:

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And YOU show the benefits of the training and education with your post of flatworms. (IF) flatworms apply to the humans, then YOU prove the benefits of the training and education of ALL people. Is not determined and fixed intelligence.
Why are YOU afraid to let some people learn?

Please elaborate,I don't understand your question?

 

[trendlover]

Really sad you are so afraid. Because not all people want to take from you. Maybe some people want the opportunity to have freedom, to be part of American freedom. Some people really admire the open freedom to speak, freedom to share opinion, freedom to see and read ALL opinions and the science. You should be very grateful to be (lucky) to be born to the place where you can talk about different conclusions in the science. You really do not appreciate that.

 

[trendlover]

Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Please elaborate,I don't understand your question?

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Is really not my question. I am saying if YOU think because some flatworms is trained and educated to respond how to navigate the maze, then the flatworm with (education and the training to navigate the maze) is cut to parts and they this parts if feed to other flatworms, then the new flatworms are born with intelligence of how to navigate. This PROVE education and training is beneficial to ALL humans. Is really OPPOSITE of Mav88 opinion that education and money to educate people can not help people. But really this flatworm YOU talk about is cannabolism. So I really do not know why you talk about flatworms.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from Brass:

You rely on studies that have long ago been shown to have been falsified, and on "scientists" whose names are now mud as a result....

Really? Cause I saw some of this same stuff mentioned on "Through the Worm Hole with Morgan Freeman" on The Science Channel not all that long ago.

 

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from trendlover:

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Is really not my question. I am saying if YOU think because some flatworms is trained and educated to respond how to navigate the maze, then the flatworm with (education and the training to navigate the maze) is cut to parts and they this parts if feed to other flatworms, then the new flatworms are born with intelligence of how to navigate. This PROVE education and training is beneficial to ALL humans. Is really OPPOSITE of Mav88 opinion that education and money to educate people can not help people. But really this flatworm YOU talk about is cannabolism. So I really do not know why you talk about flatworms.