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Iterative Refinement
- Thread starter Spydertrader
- Start date
Quote from ljyoung:
I did not say that there was no selling volume but rather that in the down-up-down sequence, the end result was that price closed higher than what it opened. Hence if one uses the convention I described to "color" the bar, it would be at its close, black. If one uses the convention that bi9 uses to color the bar, it would instead be red.
lj
So we might avoid 'missing the point' here, I'll just get right to the real point.
Quote from ljyoung:
which just on a visual cue basis I would find distracting.
That which should have provided you enlightenment, by your own words, causes you distraction.
- Spydertrader
Quote from bi9foot:
The problem is when I am waiting for a point 3 to form, I have trouble determining if a change signal applies to my resolution or not. If anyone can help I would appreciate it. Do we take each change signal and wash and repeat until the real change occurs?
I understand that a failed FTT is also a failed FTT on a higher level, NO?
Personally, I'll react on a failed FTT.
Quote from Spydertrader:
So we might avoid 'missing the point' here, I'll just get right to the real point.
That which should have provided you enlightenment, by your own words, causes you distraction.
- Spydertrader
Geez Spyder, if I didn't know better I'd say you'd been talking with avi (ho, ho, ho for Hunter S.). What I was referring to was bi9's chart and how I, chromophorically-challenged nitpicker that I am, would find it to be visually distracting to be looking at a "red" up bar (where up is defined as a close on the bar greater than the open). What I also said was that if bi9 was comfortable with such a bar, then whoopededo - it is after all his chart.
lj
Actually, I find the moving averages added to your posted 'tick' chart to be distracting. Would you please enlighten us all on their practicality for making money?Quote from ljyoung:
... chromophorically-challenged nitpicker that I am, would find it to be visually distracting...
As for coloring bars one way or another, most software 'defaults' to close vs open. Did the programers of said software understand how the market works? Did they actually 'ask' anyone who does? Thanks to bi9foot's work, and thinking critically about what can help him make money, we have an example of a bar chart that provides clarity versus some 'arbitrary' coloring 'convention'.
I'm not sure why ljyoung is taking such a beating on this - what he says makes some sense to me. (He could make his case more clearly perhaps.)
My Chart Colouring Scheme
Take a look at the bars I have coloured green and pink: look at the volume bar colour and also the way I have coloured the volume bar background - the actual gaussian. As I said, I think this gives a comprehensive view (covers the bases) of what is going on in any particular bar.
Sorry if I've missed the point.
My Chart Colouring Scheme
Take a look at the bars I have coloured green and pink: look at the volume bar colour and also the way I have coloured the volume bar background - the actual gaussian. As I said, I think this gives a comprehensive view (covers the bases) of what is going on in any particular bar.
Sorry if I've missed the point.
A few of us got together with Spydertrader today at the Traderâs Expo. I canât thank him enough for his generosity.
I believe we all came to the same conclusion that what Spydertrader laid out over a year ago, was the correct course of action, yet how many of us decided along the way that we knew better.
The main points covered today:
1) Where we are in the learning of this process.
2) âTraining wheelsâ are officially off.
3) What we need to be looking at and when.
4) The next steps.
1: Now that we can properly annotate both YM and ES in our sleep (which is the Monitoring), it is time to master Analyze. Yes that is right, we are only on the 2nd step of a 4 step process. Not that we havenât been learning to analyze, but we now see how quickly one must do it. Hearing Spydertrader talk about what must come next and all the possible outcomes, I noticed how âfastâ he was talking, almost too fast for me to keep up. I see how slow Iâve been in this step. For his speech to be that quick, just imagine how quickly he is mentally running through all the possibilities with each tick of the chart.
2: No more âtraining wheelsâ. The forest, tree, limb analogy is gone. It is time for only continuation and change. Within CONTEXT. The forest analogy was to help us learn the SEQUENCES, not necessarily to trade it.
3: The present discussions regarding permission to look at the YM was covered in great detail. Every ES bar, and the appropriate YM bars, have meaning and require action, most of the time the action is wait or hold.
4: Once we have our sequences down âCOLDâ, and can identify what must come next or if what must come next DOESNâT, then it is time to move to the sim and get some speed. Notice how much work is involved before a single button is pushed. How about with real money? How about when MADA is mastered and one can sim with the majority of trades winners and the âlosersâ are perhaps no more than 2-3 ticks. Anything else means more work is required somewhere.
Perhaps some other of the participants will post their thoughts also.
I believe we all came to the same conclusion that what Spydertrader laid out over a year ago, was the correct course of action, yet how many of us decided along the way that we knew better.
The main points covered today:
1) Where we are in the learning of this process.
2) âTraining wheelsâ are officially off.
3) What we need to be looking at and when.
4) The next steps.
1: Now that we can properly annotate both YM and ES in our sleep (which is the Monitoring), it is time to master Analyze. Yes that is right, we are only on the 2nd step of a 4 step process. Not that we havenât been learning to analyze, but we now see how quickly one must do it. Hearing Spydertrader talk about what must come next and all the possible outcomes, I noticed how âfastâ he was talking, almost too fast for me to keep up. I see how slow Iâve been in this step. For his speech to be that quick, just imagine how quickly he is mentally running through all the possibilities with each tick of the chart.
2: No more âtraining wheelsâ. The forest, tree, limb analogy is gone. It is time for only continuation and change. Within CONTEXT. The forest analogy was to help us learn the SEQUENCES, not necessarily to trade it.
3: The present discussions regarding permission to look at the YM was covered in great detail. Every ES bar, and the appropriate YM bars, have meaning and require action, most of the time the action is wait or hold.
4: Once we have our sequences down âCOLDâ, and can identify what must come next or if what must come next DOESNâT, then it is time to move to the sim and get some speed. Notice how much work is involved before a single button is pushed. How about with real money? How about when MADA is mastered and one can sim with the majority of trades winners and the âlosersâ are perhaps no more than 2-3 ticks. Anything else means more work is required somewhere.
Perhaps some other of the participants will post their thoughts also.
Quote from Avi 8:
(1) Actually, I find the moving averages added to your posted 'tick' chart to be distracting. Would you please enlighten us all on their practicality for making money?
(2) As for coloring bars one way or another, most software 'defaults' to close vs open. Did the programers of said software understand how the market works? Did they actually 'ask' anyone who does? Thanks to bi9foot's work, and thinking critically about what can help him make money, we have an example of a bar chart that provides clarity versus some 'arbitrary' coloring 'convention'.
And lo, it came to pass (heh, heh).
1. I'm not exactly sure who "us" is, but whatever, look on it (the practicality) as being an expanded version of the 20 SMA applied to a shorter time frame. For moi, MA's are like the gorilla in that video clip posted some months ago - sometimes I see them and sometimes I don't.
2. Many (possibly most) software programs will actually ask the user which Open they wish to refer the Close of the "current" bar to - the Open of the current bar or the Open of the prior bar. It can make a difference to the color of the price bar.
These are not complicated things (but please make them as complicated as you would like to) and as I said in the initial post they are a matter of personal preference. I was making a point about visual cues and if said point is not to your liking, then it's really simple - ignore it. I would not presume for a femtosecond that anyone should of necessity view things as I do. Y'ome sayin? Once again, who cares?
So far as I know the avi8 rendition of what is necessary to be successful trading the market using JHT principles, is neither unique nor forcing. If you wish to think that it is either unique or forcing, again, please do so. The reality is, that it isn't.
lj
And now, yes, I'm tired. Catch you in the AM.