Is there an order in the Universe?

[jem]

Quote from vhehn:

what if cloning research found us a way to regenerate organs and saved the thousands who die every year because there is a lack of transplant organs? what if stem cell research was able to heal people with spine injuries who otherwise never walk again?
do we allow religious dogma to stop mans advances based on a book of fables?

What if cloning allowed a corporation to make a vhehn clone, who then killed vhehn, voluteered to go to Iraq and preached Christianity in fox holes.

No concerns about cloning now?

 

[ElCubano]

Quote from jem:

What if cloning allowed a corporation to make a vhehn clone, who then killed vhehn, voluteered to go to Iraq and preached Christianity in fox holes.

No concerns about cloning now?

only the preaching christianity part im sure..

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from jem:

What if cloning allowed a corporation to make a vhehn clone, who then killed vhehn, voluteered to go to Iraq and preached Christianity in fox holes.

No concerns about cloning now?

what if cloning were used by the military. they would clone their best men and just keep sending the new hatchlings to iraq. result would be an endless supply of men to spread the "good news".

 

[neophyte321]

Quote from vhehn:

what if cloning research found us a way to regenerate organs and saved the thousands who die every year because there is a lack of transplant organs? what if stem cell research was able to heal people with spine injuries who otherwise never walk again?
do we allow religious dogma to stop mans advances based on a book of fables?

so what do you do with the clone? Toss it? Or harvest the rest of it? A very simple thing for a person eager to kill any notions of "god" to envision ...

well, this is a different argument altogether. It really doesn't matter what I think, we will soon be there.

many, MANY people believe conceiving embryos for our consumption is tantamount to manufacturing people to harvest and have serious objectives to its amorality. So, why don't you types respect that and see the progress being made with alternatives.

INSTEAD, you label them fanatics, crackpots and write books such as "The God Delusion"


The last comment I'll make in regard to stem cells, cloning, etc ...: Seen any nightmarish visions of the future in any scientific-fiction books/movies?

Don't think it can't happen ... "Science is Real! God is Delusional! Worship Science(tists)!"

 

[stu]

Quote from jem:

If you had this guys mind and did not believe in millions of other universes you would believe there was a design.

Well he does have his mind and he does not say he believes , or comes the conclusion there was a "design".

Quote from jem:

a million other universes would not be enough to reply to anthropic prinicple

The anthropic principle is a compendium of various conjecture, so why should anything reply to a conjecture in which any number if not all of its parts may not be the case.

Quote from jem:

The anthropic principle is real science that is driving the best minds in physics to speculation.

Rubbish. It never was and it still is not. Most of it is based on a truism and a lot of it is philosophy. You might do better when you stop trying to add stuff that isn't there to fool yourself.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from neophyte321:

so what do you do with the clone? Toss it? Or harvest the rest of it? A very simple thing for a person eager to kill any notions of "god" to envision ...

well, this is a different argument altogether. It really doesn't matter what I think, we will soon be there.

many, MANY people believe conceiving embryos for our consumption is tantamount to manufacturing people to harvest and have serious objectives to its amorality.

god himself (if he exist)harvests the bad embryos. up to half of all fertilized eggs are aborted:
The cause of most spontaneous abortions is fetal death due to fetal genetic abnormalities, usually unrelated to the mother. Other possible causes for spontaneous abortion include infection, physical problems the mother may have, hormonal factors, immune responses, and serious systemic diseases of the mother (such as diabetes or thyroid problems).

It is estimated that up to 50% of all fertilized eggs die and are lost (aborted) spontaneously, usually before the woman knows she is pregnant. Among known pregnancies, the rate of spontaneous abortion is approximately 10% and usually occurs between the 7th and 12th weeks of pregnancy.

The risk for spontaneous abortion is higher in women over age 35, in women with systemic diseases such as diabetes or thyroid problems, and women with a history of three or more prior spontaneous abortions.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001488.htm

 

[jem]

Quote from stu:

Well he does have his mind and he does not say he believes , or comes the conclusion there was a "design".The anthropic principle is a compendium of various conjecture, so why should anything reply to a conjecture in which any number if not all of its parts may not be the case.
Rubbish. It never was and it still is not. Most of it is based on a truism and a lot of it is philosophy. You might do better when you stop trying to add stuff that isn't there to fool yourself.

There ya go Stu. Just keep sticking to the compendium of various conjecture line.

Who cares that physics has recognized that the fine tuning of the universe is compelling evidence. Who cares that you have not come up with any science that counters the argument made by an astrophysicist in 1973.

As the founder of propoganda for the commies said tell a big lie and tell it often enough and the people will believe it.

In your faith based atheism all you have left - is disinformation

Absent any physics from you in your response - I will not be responding to you in this universe on this subject. If I do respond and you see it it will be in one of the trilliions of other universes which are subject of the speculations by the best minds in physics to defeat the conclusion of design.

 

[neophyte321]

Quote from vhehn:

god himself (if he exist)harvests the bad embryos. up to half of all fertilized eggs are aborted:
The cause of most spontaneous abortions is fetal death due to fetal genetic abnormalities, usually unrelated to the mother. Other possible causes for spontaneous abortion include infection, physical problems the mother may have, hormonal factors, immune responses, and serious systemic diseases of the mother (such as diabetes or thyroid problems).

It is estimated that up to 50% of all fertilized eggs die and are lost (aborted) spontaneously, usually before the woman knows she is pregnant. Among known pregnancies, the rate of spontaneous abortion is approximately 10% and usually occurs between the 7th and 12th weeks of pregnancy.

The risk for spontaneous abortion is higher in women over age 35, in women with systemic diseases such as diabetes or thyroid problems, and women with a history of three or more prior spontaneous abortions.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001488.htm

yeah, people get hit by trains also. That doesn't make it moral to push people in front of them.

Abortion is seriously off-topic here...

Im not religiously dogmatic by any stretch, but I'd rather look to the "heavans" to find the meaning of life, than be preached to by some Biologist that we are little more the pure chance events, playing a mind-boggling miniscule role in an unfathomably long evolutionary chain ...

and Yes, there is perfect order in the universe!

 

[stu]

Quote from jem:

Who cares that physics has recognized that the fine tuning of the universe is compelling evidence.

Physics doesn't recognize 'fine tuning' = design. You do.

Anthropic principle includes'fine tuning' as a possibility not a fact nor a scientific fact, and there is no science that states the universe is fine tuned or that it is designed.

Quote from jem:

Who cares that you have not come up with any science that counters the argument made by an astrophysicist in 1973.

There are shitloads of alternatives countering that argument, you have already acknowledged that. Why should I do your homework for you?

Get over it jem. Your God of the gaps argument is getting harder and harder to defend. Is that why you are trying so desperately to put words and conclusions into the mouths and minds of scientists and science?

 

[ElCubano]

Quote from stu:

Physics doesn't recognize 'fine tuning' = design. You do.

I believe fine tuning can only be accomplished thru design. the radio doesnt tune itself to the station you want to litsen to does it?? just asking..cuz i am one to think they do equal each other at least in this argument...